my first engine
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BRASSO
bencam43
Nate
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matt86
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mike d
JONESEY
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13 posters
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my first engine
Hi. I just joined here after buying a Petter A1 at a local auction, I have always been interested in seeing them on the rally fields and thought I might try restoring one.
collected it this morning and here it is, about a 1\3 ton of seized up rust with bits missing
I found out what it was from the name plate
covers and head off
strange thing is the exhaust valve is in line with the carb and the in valve lines up with the exhaust
next off were the pulley and the flywheel
after unbolting the barrel i found out which end was seized, the top end the piston was solid in the bore, some bright spark had fitted the head gasket with red hermatite which had run down inside the barrel as he tightened it up
several different thickness's of wood were gradually built up between the barrel and the top of the crank case and a big hammer was used with a block of wood to knock the piston down the barrel, not a good idea i know but it was the best i could think of at the time.
all 3 rings were solidly jammed up with red hermatite and the gudgeon pin is solid in the piston too.
i just hope i didn't damage the bottom end bearing (shells?) getting the piston out
the bore looks surprisingly good after bashing the piston out
piston
thats a bout as far as i have got so far,
thanks for looking, comments welcome
Neville
collected it this morning and here it is, about a 1\3 ton of seized up rust with bits missing
I found out what it was from the name plate
covers and head off
strange thing is the exhaust valve is in line with the carb and the in valve lines up with the exhaust
next off were the pulley and the flywheel
after unbolting the barrel i found out which end was seized, the top end the piston was solid in the bore, some bright spark had fitted the head gasket with red hermatite which had run down inside the barrel as he tightened it up
several different thickness's of wood were gradually built up between the barrel and the top of the crank case and a big hammer was used with a block of wood to knock the piston down the barrel, not a good idea i know but it was the best i could think of at the time.
all 3 rings were solidly jammed up with red hermatite and the gudgeon pin is solid in the piston too.
i just hope i didn't damage the bottom end bearing (shells?) getting the piston out
the bore looks surprisingly good after bashing the piston out
piston
thats a bout as far as i have got so far,
thanks for looking, comments welcome
Neville
hob- Life Member
- Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
Looks nice and compleat good luck with the resteration
Thanks for posting photos
Jonesey
Thanks for posting photos
Jonesey
JONESEY- Admin
- Posts : 2848
Join date : 2009-07-21
Age : 61
Location : Verwood, Dorset
Re: my first engine
HI NEVILLE....
looks like your not hanging about in getting the engine sorted...
you do realize that it wont stop at one engine,
its an addiction and the numbers of engines will grow.
you will have to keep us posted on your progress...well done on the progress...
I've welcomed you in the new members section..
regards,mike.
looks like your not hanging about in getting the engine sorted...
you do realize that it wont stop at one engine,
its an addiction and the numbers of engines will grow.
you will have to keep us posted on your progress...well done on the progress...
I've welcomed you in the new members section..
regards,mike.
Last edited by mike d on Tue Jun 14 2011, 23:12; edited 1 time in total
mike d- Life Member
- Posts : 7594
Join date : 2009-08-26
Age : 62
Location : DORSET..BORN AND BRED AND PROUD OF IT.
Re: my first engine
thanks guys. are those valves the wrong way round ??
hob- Life Member
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Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
hi neville..
im not sure as ive never had one of theses myself..
some one will put you rite..
regards,mike..
im not sure as ive never had one of theses myself..
some one will put you rite..
regards,mike..
mike d- Life Member
- Posts : 7594
Join date : 2009-08-26
Age : 62
Location : DORSET..BORN AND BRED AND PROUD OF IT.
Re: my first engine
Hi Neville, from the sounds of the last engine restorer he may have just put the valves in the wrong way round. The piston looks as i might be shot looking at the score marks, but I'd need to see it better once it was all cleaned up. It beats me why people use red hermitite and more so on an air cooled engine There doesn't look to be much missing it has most of the main bits and even a flywheel pully. You'll need to find a good petrol tank and pipe. If you sort out what else you need try an add in the wanted section.
Keep us up to date with it's progress and thanks for taking the time to post the pics.
I would date it around 1950 give or take a year or two, but you'd need to check with the experts to get a definate date..
Stu.
Keep us up to date with it's progress and thanks for taking the time to post the pics.
I would date it around 1950 give or take a year or two, but you'd need to check with the experts to get a definate date..
Stu.
Guest- Guest
Re: my first engine
Thanks for the reply Stu.
the gudgeon pin is seized in the piston so i'm working on a puller using some threaded bar and some steel pipe, the engine is in a friends workshop so i can only work on it when he's around.
looking at the valves they are both the same size so i will probably swap them when i grind them in.
i found an empty steel fire extinguisher thats the right size if i can't find a tank i might modify that
i brought the carb home this weekend and gave that a clean and cleared the jets, its crap metal so it didn't clean up too well
i also bought some gasket material and started making gaskets
hopefully the casings and other odd bits will go for shot blasting some time in the next week or so, i might be buying a trailer for it at a local auction tomorrow too.
neville
stationary stu wrote:Hi Neville, from the sounds of the last engine restorer he may have just put the valves in the wrong way round. The piston looks as i might be shot looking at the score marks, but I'd need to see it better once it was all cleaned up.
the gudgeon pin is seized in the piston so i'm working on a puller using some threaded bar and some steel pipe, the engine is in a friends workshop so i can only work on it when he's around.
looking at the valves they are both the same size so i will probably swap them when i grind them in.
stationary stu wrote:
You'll need to find a good petrol tank and pipe.
i found an empty steel fire extinguisher thats the right size if i can't find a tank i might modify that
same age as me thenstationary stu wrote:
I would date it around 1950 give or take a year or two, but you'd need to check with the experts to get a definite date..
Stu.
i brought the carb home this weekend and gave that a clean and cleared the jets, its crap metal so it didn't clean up too well
i also bought some gasket material and started making gaskets
hopefully the casings and other odd bits will go for shot blasting some time in the next week or so, i might be buying a trailer for it at a local auction tomorrow too.
neville
hob- Life Member
- Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
Looks ok, I think I have a set of rings and valves if you want any, also there is a tank on ebay that will do. I can also sort you out with a new fuel pipe as I have a coil in the shed. By the look of your carb it is an early carb on a late engine. Good thing you have an exhaust as these can be hard to find.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-tank-/400224027051?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item5d2f3601ab#ht_790wt_934
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-tank-/400224027051?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item5d2f3601ab#ht_790wt_934
_________________
Suffolk boy born and breed, strong in back and thick in head
Appletop- Life Member
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Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 56
Location : Just outside Diss
Re: my first engine
thanks for the offers, i'm busy trying to make a video at the moment, i will get back to you soon
regards Neville
regards Neville
hob- Life Member
- Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
Villiers wrote:Looks ok, I think I have a set of rings and valves if you want any, also there is a tank on ebay that will do. I can also sort you out with a new fuel pipe as I have a coil in the shed. By the look of your carb it is an early carb on a late engine. Good thing you have an exhaust as these can be hard to find.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-tank-/400224027051?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item5d2f3601ab#ht_790wt_934
yes i bought a book and it says carb is either a Zenith 24U or a Zenith 24T-2 but mine seems to be a Solex 26-FV so maybe not the original
not sure if the piston is STD or oversized i will have to check now i have the size from the book. same with the valves i will have to see what they are like when i get them out. would love to have some petrol pipe i will let you know when i know how much i will need
i need a starting handle too if anyone has a spare
hob- Life Member
- Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
welcome to the stationary engine world buddy , as mike said once u have started you cant stop lol , i started with one and now have 2 engines and various pumps lol , buying engines have been put on hold as i will be starting to build another shed , as running out of space lol
matt86- Admin
- Posts : 5577
Join date : 2011-03-29
Age : 37
Location : swindon/ faringdon
Re: my first engine
well i made a puller for the gudgeon pin with some threaded bar and cranked the pin out
piston is standard size
minor damage from the puller
rings are gummed up solid
started breaking them out in case the piston can be re-used
top view
took a few more casings and bits off ready for a trip to the shot blaster
and bought some transport for it
Neville
piston is standard size
minor damage from the puller
rings are gummed up solid
started breaking them out in case the piston can be re-used
top view
took a few more casings and bits off ready for a trip to the shot blaster
and bought some transport for it
Neville
hob- Life Member
- Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
Hi Neville..
looking like you making good progress..you can get rings from cox and turner down my way....
they can post them to you if you want..
if you need the details,they are as follows..
COX & TURNER ENGINEERING
61 CAMEL GREEN ROAD
FORDINGBRIDGE
HANTS
SP6 3AU
01425 652627
EMAIL...ian@coxnturner.freeserve.co.uk
hope this helps you mate..
regards,mike...
looking like you making good progress..you can get rings from cox and turner down my way....
they can post them to you if you want..
if you need the details,they are as follows..
COX & TURNER ENGINEERING
61 CAMEL GREEN ROAD
FORDINGBRIDGE
HANTS
SP6 3AU
01425 652627
EMAIL...ian@coxnturner.freeserve.co.uk
hope this helps you mate..
regards,mike...
mike d- Life Member
- Posts : 7594
Join date : 2009-08-26
Age : 62
Location : DORSET..BORN AND BRED AND PROUD OF IT.
Re: my first engine
thanks for that Mike, one of the guys here may have a set for me, if not that will come in very handy
neville
neville
hob- Life Member
- Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
not a problem mate.i do try to help if i can..
regards,mike....
regards,mike....
mike d- Life Member
- Posts : 7594
Join date : 2009-08-26
Age : 62
Location : DORSET..BORN AND BRED AND PROUD OF IT.
Re: my first engine
Hi Neville,
Your petter is a Series 2 engine, which were built between 1948 - 1951
For a definative answer to your engine dating post a letter to :-
Keith Ott
80 Hobb Lane
Hedge End
Southampton
SO3 4GP
Send a couple of pics to him and he will be able to tell you the exact date it was made and who it was first sold to.
The Valves are the wrong way round, its not a big job to change them over.
The carb that you have is from a 'Petter A' engine. youd be better to get the right type as it would run better.
Thanks for posting the pics etc, nice to see someone getting the time to do some work on an engine.
Paul
Your petter is a Series 2 engine, which were built between 1948 - 1951
For a definative answer to your engine dating post a letter to :-
Keith Ott
80 Hobb Lane
Hedge End
Southampton
SO3 4GP
Send a couple of pics to him and he will be able to tell you the exact date it was made and who it was first sold to.
The Valves are the wrong way round, its not a big job to change them over.
The carb that you have is from a 'Petter A' engine. youd be better to get the right type as it would run better.
Thanks for posting the pics etc, nice to see someone getting the time to do some work on an engine.
Paul
Re: my first engine
Thanks for posting the pics etc, nice to see someone getting the time to do some work on an engine.
thanks for the info, damaged a disk in my neck a while back so i got retired early.
i'm a 1951 model too
i manage to potter around for a few hours but then i have to rest for a while
still pulling bits off the engine
painted my first bit today (primer)
getting a towbar on the car next week
hob- Life Member
- Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
Your getting on very well Neville, just keep taking pics, helps with the re-build. Once you start painting it's the point where your starting the building back up of the engine I think it's a great point as your on to the finishing straight (my way of thinking to keep me going) but it takes that long for the paint to set and you'll need a few coats of primer then 2 or 3 coats of top coat so still plenty to do.
I understand where your comming from with your neck problem, both Mike and myself have lower back problems and can only work for a few hours everyday if were lucky and weather permits (not to cold or damp), so it takes me months and months to do anything yet I still enjoy doing it I'd go crazy just sitting about all day
Stu..
I understand where your comming from with your neck problem, both Mike and myself have lower back problems and can only work for a few hours everyday if were lucky and weather permits (not to cold or damp), so it takes me months and months to do anything yet I still enjoy doing it I'd go crazy just sitting about all day
Stu..
Guest- Guest
Re: my first engine
more progress today, I got the valves out for a regrind, the barrel casting is not best quality
hoping this will do, I don't want to do too much to it
my brother has an old Norton 250 which is being done up and I saw his engine restorer today he said my piston and barrel were OK to re-use as is got the last bits of piston rings out today and cleaned out the grooves
small bits off the carb will be painted black
Stu, i keep taking photo's at my age i need all the help i can get
regular uploads to
https://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z279/hobspics/petter%20A1%20engine/?start=all
hoping this will do, I don't want to do too much to it
my brother has an old Norton 250 which is being done up and I saw his engine restorer today he said my piston and barrel were OK to re-use as is got the last bits of piston rings out today and cleaned out the grooves
small bits off the carb will be painted black
Stu, i keep taking photo's at my age i need all the help i can get
regular uploads to
https://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z279/hobspics/petter%20A1%20engine/?start=all
hob- Life Member
- Posts : 725
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
Neville what you have to remember about rebuilding a stationary engine it's not that is going to be of any importance, (I'll explain that statement) I served my time as an HGV mechanic for Leyland trucks doing mainly warranty work or engine rebuilds, which I enjoyed, nothing better then overhauling an engine then hear it roar into life again. Now after a lot of years I start on stationary engines, fully inspecting them thinking to myself that piston is scored can I re-use it, the valves won't re-seat fully as the valve face and seat needs re-cut. Sitting one day I was thinking about an engine and it's wear when it came to me it's only a stationary engine it's not running 14 hours a day non stop fully loaded if it's not 100% does it realy matter, my answer was no. The engine could have been in a ditch for the last 40 years just to give it a good clean and check nothing is to badly worn then it will do for what I need it for. But I still do it with every engine and ask "is there to much end float on the crank" I think it's something I had to learn but now I need to try and remember if it doesn't work it's not that big of a job to strip down again, so I understand your concerns about overhauling your first stationary engine but at the end of the day don't loose sleep over it, it's just a hobby and if it's not right you'll just have to sort it out again
I hope you understand where I'm coming from and I'm not having a go at you or your skills but these old lumps of iron don't need a fortune spending on them to enjoy.
Great pics, wish I'd remember to take my camera out to the shed with me.
Stu.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from and I'm not having a go at you or your skills but these old lumps of iron don't need a fortune spending on them to enjoy.
Great pics, wish I'd remember to take my camera out to the shed with me.
Stu.
Guest- Guest
Re: my first engine
interesting philosophy Stu, I understand what you mean, if it was my only transport I'd want a re bore and a new piston as it is I'll use the old bits.
I do however want it to be fairly reliable and look good.
i'm certainly not loosing sleep over it
I do however want it to be fairly reliable and look good.
i'm certainly not loosing sleep over it
hob- Life Member
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Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
Phew I'm glad you were able to understand the long winded write up No good spending £££££'s on an engine that's only worth pennies, I'm sure you'll know what to do for the best and have a great engine once it's finished.
Stu.
Stu.
Guest- Guest
Re: my first engine
made 2 more gaskets last night.
painted a few bits this morning, my first green bits
and some little mainly carb linkages painted black hanging in the conservatory roof to dry
neville
painted a few bits this morning, my first green bits
and some little mainly carb linkages painted black hanging in the conservatory roof to dry
neville
hob- Life Member
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Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
thinking about getting the pulley and flywheel skimmed on a lathe it would save an awful lot of work trying to do it by hand
hob- Life Member
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Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 72
Location : East Suffolk
Re: my first engine
My opinion on Skimming - I hate it! Loose the original timing marks
and when you have nice ones like on my Scott it would be a big shame
some flywheels and pulleys are shaped to keep a belt on, plus there is alot of history in those marks!
I use a sanding block while the engine is running, then a bit of oil, comes up not to shinny, this is my WX11.
A WDII I had had very badly pitted flywheels, I used a range of files from Course to fine then wet and and dry once it was rebuilt and it came up lovely.
There she is in bits (with my Sister) as I bought it for a fiver.
And after winning the Cup for best Jnr stationary engine at the West of England steam show.
In the end its personal choice, and by the looks of things your going to do a grand job!
Cheers Steve
and when you have nice ones like on my Scott it would be a big shame
some flywheels and pulleys are shaped to keep a belt on, plus there is alot of history in those marks!
I use a sanding block while the engine is running, then a bit of oil, comes up not to shinny, this is my WX11.
A WDII I had had very badly pitted flywheels, I used a range of files from Course to fine then wet and and dry once it was rebuilt and it came up lovely.
There she is in bits (with my Sister) as I bought it for a fiver.
And after winning the Cup for best Jnr stationary engine at the West of England steam show.
In the end its personal choice, and by the looks of things your going to do a grand job!
Cheers Steve
Guest- Guest
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