Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

kevjhnsn wrote:nutty matt
looking good again mate
its like youve done one of these before
plasticote and a fanbelt wont be to hard to locate mate
keep it up and youll be shopping for a third one to do
kev

also if you ever need a ewarts brass plunger and newcork i have a bag of them ready to go after a couple of days to soak and swell the new cork to size
kev

All good news Matt, lets hope the genny bearings are ok.

Stu.

Glad my whitworth dies are coming in useful, they were a good buy at about £2 if I remember correctly

Well, I'm just killing time now until Ian brings the rest of the bits round. I got fed up with looking at the rusty exhaust pipe, as I haven't got any high-temp black I thought I would give it a coat of Kurust, as that turns black on contact with rust. I gave it a good wire brushing first (by hand this time) then de-greased it with brake & clutch cleaner & some rag. I've used Kurust on hot parts before & it seemed to hold up well. Time will tell I guess....



I also had a bit of a sort out & found the only spare "TARPEN" tank transfer I had made for the last one. I know it's probably too early, but I couldn't resist putting it on....



During my sort out I also found some left over braided flex which I used on the last one....



I'm not sure if I want to use it on this one, it's expensive stuff, & originally these would've had black rubber. I think I would prefer to use black rubber flex & save this for a lighting board, as I intend to make up a small lighting board to go with this engine, it looks like I will be selling it on, & I would prefer to sell on a complete exhibit, ready to rally (60w bulbs included ).

Nut's you've done well with the engine, have a break ready to get that flywheel off the genny

I've just bought this set of taps and dies off ebay for 99p, they are worth more then that in scrap as there 1/2, 3/4 and inch.



Stu.

Nice set Stu, dunno how you find them.

I decided to forego a rest today, Ian was due round to drop off the last couple of bits & take the rest away, so I wanted to get the silencer made up & put in. I didn't have any metal glue this time, so I put it together with wire. It turned out very rigid & just right....



So, off came the back flange from the chassis. Sounds easier than it was, I put it on with Blue Hylomar & it really took some getting off. But off it came & in went the silencer....



Bolted it all back together, touched up the paintwork & job's a good'un....



So, then Ian arrives with the other bits & I set to work dismantling the genny. The main problem is getting some grease into the bearing at the engine end. This isn't easy with a pulley & drive coupling flange firmly fixed to the shaft. I decided to have a good think about what to do. Then I spotted a big syringe & had an idea.

I managed to take the bearing plate off by removing the 4 screws with pliers to reveal a tiny gap where I could get to the bearing. It was here I decided to inject grease in through some small flexible tubing....





Hey presto, it's all back together, nicely packed with grease (a messy job though)....



I cleaned up the commutator, scraped & cleaned the crud off & degreased the various bits as best I could, then wire brushed all the little nuts & bolts, bits & bobs ready for tomorrow....



Oh yes, I also prepped & painted the handle & prepped & primed the cast aluminium bits with my new "oil based" special metals primer....



I couldn't start up the drill tonight, as I have to keep things reasonably quiet for the neighbours. So tomorrow I need to take the drill powered wire brush to the genny outer parts ready for reassembly & painting.

Syringe grease gun! Wonder who's idea that was??????


I've got the nice shiny bits in my garage now, don't know how I fitted them in but I did it and I can still walk through, JUST!
(No more engines now!)

I know it's been a few years since I was in the trade but I'm not sure you've used the correct type of grease on the bearings, I might be wrong, but I always used white grease on bearings and the black was an Anti Seize waterproof type of grease. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the white grease is high melting point used to pack bearing.

More good progress made on your Tarpen, now it's your choosen subject ... electrics.

Stu.

stationary stu wrote:I know it's been a few years since I was in the trade but I'm not sure you've used the correct type of grease on the bearings, I might be wrong, but I always used white grease on bearings and the black was an Anti Seize waterproof type of grease. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the white grease is high melting point used to pack bearing.

More good progress made on your Tarpen, now it's your choosen subject ... electrics.

Stu.

That grease there has a high moly content which makes it ideal for fast moving bearings and it will deal with heat well without losing it's viscosity.
I've always used the whiter greases on gears as they are generally lithium or soap based and don't deal with heat so well although they do deal with heavy loads so that is probably why you used to use them and why I often see the same type of grease on the farms I work on.

You can also get a moly/lith mixed grease which is used on CV joints, this is a good grease for a lot of bearings but probably not lorries or anything carrying a very heavy load. It also smooths out a spring powered air rifles a treat

I bought that grease from an army surplus stall for £2 a tin, when I got home I researched it with Ian's help (he knows more about grease than I do) & we found out it was quite a good all-rounder.
It's a Rocol grease with a reasonable melting point. I seem to remember, after researching it, I wished I'd bought another couple of tins at that price.

This grease is; "Rocol S-BG 305" I also have access to "Renolit EP 2" multipurpose grease & (of course) good old copper slip, but I like this Rocol stuff, mainly because it's not my dad's so I don't have to worry how much I'm using (& of course it was only £2 a tin & was probably a military one).

I also thought white grease was primarily used on gears, but like I said, I don't know much about the different greases.

I've been busy reassembling & painting today, will upload some pics in a bit.

Right, I'm getting tired now, it's all catching up with me I think. Anyway, I put the genny back together this morning....



Painted it up....



then wiped the green off where the black's going to go....



Then Ian came round with the Briggs, my parents went to the vet with the dog, so I was helping him & running in & out trying to cook the dinner at the same time.

I would like to go back out there tonight & paint in the black stripe, but the green paint will still be tacky, so I'll need full concentration with no mistakes. Maybe I'll leave it, but it's such a small job, & the sooner it's done the sooner it'll be dry.

We'll see....

OK I've done it, I've painted the black stripe on the genny....



I only made one slight mistake (the "bloom" on the green paint is just condensation from my breath)....



I am now officially knackered! I didn't attempt to put the mistake right as the green paint is still quite tacky, so it'll either have to stay like it, or wait until it's dry to put it right.

Tomorrow I will pop out & buy some black rubber flex. I can do the wiring bit, fit the plug socket & touch up the bolt heads. Then it'll be ready to go over Ian's & be finished off.

I'm quite keen to get it done now as I've seen something I would like to possibly buy, so this needs finishing & selling on. I need to look into things a bit though, as this possible new project may be a little out of my price range, even with the sale of the Tarpen. I mean, how much does a freshly restored Tarpen sell for anyway??? It should have a nice light board with it, with 2 light bulbs, braided flex & round pin plug included. It'll probably end up on eBay, unless someone on one of the forums shows an interest, but I'm not starting it at 99p, I will do the usual & start it at the minimum I'm willing to accept, if it fails to sell I will hang onto it or drop the price. I shouldn't really rush into selling it, & I won't if this other engine doesn't materialise. I don't think it's a good time to sell right now anyway, but it could be a good time to buy...

Also, I don't want to sell & end up with the money & no engine, as the money will undoubtedly end up getting spent on other things & my "engine fund" will be back to zero.

I managed to find the energy to give the workshop a good clean-up though, Ian left quite a mess behind....

The calm after the storm (should keep my dad happy at least)....



& yes, that is what I call tidy. Admittedly the far corner needs a sort out, but I'm looking for a filing cabinet to go in there. It's getting there anyway, trouble is it's me doing all the sorting, so whenever my dad comes to do anything in there he always has to ask me where everything is, then my payment for having use of his workshop is usually to tidy up after him as well!

nutty matt
your cranking on well again
thought i was bad enough
your putting me to shame there lad
well done and crank on
dont rush the wiring as you know get it wrong and somthing goes bang
keep us updated
kev

Matt not long before it's finished but sounds as if your going to have to dig deep to buy the parts to make up your lighting board.

Stu.

stationary stu wrote:Matt not long before it's finished but sounds as if your going to have to dig deep to buy the parts to make up your lighting board.

Stu.

You're not kidding Stu, I've just been out shopping. The light bulb holders weren't that expensive (same as I got last time & same as I recommended to Abes a few weeks ago)

But the price of wood!!! What a rip off!

I've ended up getting a long piece of what looks like a bit of pallet wood from Wickes, which I will have to sand down & finish myself, they wanted well over a tenner for a smallish piece of finished wood, & it's not even like it's decent quality! It's rubbish! Full of knot holes & imperfections, think I'm better off making my own.

Think I will definitely have to dig deep for the carpentry skills though!

Right, I've done a few bits & bobs today, but first I feel I should mention a strange coincidence. Back at the end of August, whilst at a rally (the first one for my newly restored "other" Tarpen) a guy came up to me to talk about the engine, he said how he had one which was missing quite a few parts. I gave him my email address & told him to contact me, so I could send him some links to this forum & my thread on the restoration of the Tarpen. Anyway, for whatever reason, today he decides to get in touch. I've done my best to advocate this forum, given him the links & plenty more besides, so lets hope he makes it along, & if he does I'd like to say "Hi Bob, glad you made it".

Right, back to business. Today I went off shopping, I got myself some black rubber flex, some brass lampholders & some wood. Then I ordered a fan belt & set to work on the genny wiring. I had already prepared the ends of the old wires from the genny & sleeved them with heat shrink sleeving of appropriate colours.

I started with the plug socket. I've already made up a new paper gasket to replace the old one which goes between the connections & the metal box (they shouldn't touch anyway, but it's always better to be safe)....



I had to solder new wires to the old switch then somehow manage to squeeze everything into the socket box....



One thing I would like to add, if I could ever pass on one piece of information, as an electrician, it would be this: Terminals. It is important to get as much copper (IE: the wire) into the terminal as possible, hence it's always best to do this....



Terminals are an electro-mechanical connection, they should always be done up as tight as possible & be of the best quality. If you can fit the wire in with the end doubled over then you should. Braided or multistranded cables should always be twisted to collect the strands together, this makes them more rigid, but you shouldn't twist separate cables together (unless they are to be soldered) as this is bad practise & makes for a bad connection (I know we all do it, & if you do then make sure you give them all a good tug when the terminal screw is done up, to make sure they are all tight in there).
Electrical terminals, in operation, will get hot or warm, then go cold again, then warm again, then cold again. Over time, this heat/cold cycle will expand & contract the metal & loosen the terminal, so this is why I think it's so important. The looser a terminal gets the hotter it will get in operation, until one day it catches fire.

OK, electrics lesson over for today.

The original genny connections were soldered with rubber tubing stretched over, so I decided to do this again & use heat shrink tubing instead....



I didn't like the idea of a thin layer of heat shrink tubing on its own, so I stretched over some of the rubber from the outside of the flex to give better protection, much more like the original....



Another little trick I like to use, I like to have cord grips of some sort on anything with flex, so I put a cable tie round the flex & pull it nice & tight, just in case anything should ever yank the lead....



Now, I wasn't very happy with the flex here (from genny to socket), it's likely to get in the way or get caught up on something....



So I've made up a small aluminium P clip, which I will fasten onto the generator bolt (when the paint's dried)....



It'll fasten on here....



Now I set to making a lighting board. I got my cheap timber from Wickes, a 1.8m length, which I cut into 3 pieces & used a piece of batten (also purchased today from Wickes) to join it all together....



I've spent ages since that pic sanding it down to try & make it reasonably presentable. I will pop to my local hardware shop tomorrow & see if I can get some cheap varnish & stain, or an all in one. I've wired the lamp holders to short flexes & wired a plug to a longer one (all made from my leftover braided flex from the other Tarpen). I should have it all together tomorrow. I'm going to put a print-out of an old Tarpen advert from the 1930s, featuring this particular generating set, onto the board & seal it with some special hobby glue stuff my mum's got (which looks & smells suspiciously like PVA) & that'll go with the engine to make up an exhibit.

So, it should all be done by the end of the week.

Oh yes, I really need one of these....





This one one has had it, I'm not kidding, normally I would repair anything, but this is beyond repair.

The hole in it is just under an inch (internal diameter), but it's difficult to measure as it's been knocked about & bent. I haven't got the carb here to measure, but it's a pretty standard size, usually found on Villiers carbs.

Anyone got one or know where to get one???

nutty matt
i did have 2 of these and i only need one, if i still have it around the villiers spares shed shelf
will have a look for you
mine were fitted tovilliers mk20`s off atco ride on cylinder mowers
give me the external front diameter and try and get the carb mounting measurment off your mate storing the other one for you,
so were dealing with the right thing to start with as there are 6 different carb filter mounting diamentions that i know to off the top of my head mate
and three are just this style filter

it looks like your on a mission with this one mate, all coming together like "supermans "your garage helper
like your wiring ideas and safty measures there mate
keep it up

kev

Cheers Kev, I'll get some proper measurements for you off the carb, or perhaps Ian can do it for me, as it's in his garage. The one on the other Tarpen actually has Villiers written on it, so I'm not too bothered about it being an exact match, just as long as it fits & has a built in strangler for the choke.

Anyway, the fan belts arrived today (that was quick, good old Beltingonline, I would always recommend them for any belts, pulleys, sprockets & taper-lock bushes etc etc, their service really is brilliant & prices very reasonable)....



I ordered two as I wasn't sure on the size. The belt on the other Tarpen is a 580mm, but beltingonline only sell Z section V belts in inches. I emailed them last week & they said I either wanted a 21.5" or 22" belt. As they were only about 86p each (plus VAT & P&P) I thought I would order both & fit whatever goes best. In reality there's very little between them, so the other one can serve as a spare for my other Tarpen.

I've just got back from the hardware shop with some stain/varnish in one, so am just about to finish off the lighting board & other bits & bobs.

Quick update....

Sorted the flex from genny to socket problem....



I put a couple of layers of self-amalgamating tape over the flex, to protect it from the metal (would've been fine anyway, but it's the electrician in me coming out again) & touched up the paintwork....



Also put a coat of stained varnish on the light board....



Damn stuff takes 16hrs to dry before I can apply the 2nd coat, then it'll be another "God-knows-how-long" until I can safely handle it (I'd forgotten just how long varnish takes to dry).

nutty matt or ian
i will wait for the forcoming measurements
thanks kev

I'll pop down to the garage now and measure the carb.................


0.95"/24mm
So, just under an inch, something like 15/16ths although I'm sure a 1" could be made to fit

Looking good Nuts, looking forward to seeing if it all works as planned when you get her started. Some good ideas on wiring thanks for passing on your tips.

Stu.

Cheers Stu & cheers Kev.

I'm getting all excited now, my paint's all dry, the bits are all together (well, not the choke, but I can use the one off the other Tarpen for now), I applied the 2nd coat of varnish to the light board today & it was touch dry much quicker than the other one, so I've put the lights on & soldered up all the connections, wrapping them in heat shrink sleeving, then some rubber tube & wrapped it all up in rubber self amalgamating tape (I always wanted a roll of that stuff, never quite knew what for, but now I've got some I realise what fantastic stuff it really is).

I even stole some of my mum's special hobby glue/sealer stuff (it's called "Mod-Podge") to apply an old Tarpen advert to the board (don't worry, it appears white, but it will dry completely clear with a gloss finish, so won't show on the varnished wood but will seal the poster on there from any damp, & the poster is just a print-out from the internet)....





There is a hinged leg on the back of the board, so it's a completely self contained unit, ready to rally with the engine.

So, it's off to Ian's tomorrow, to put it all together & take some pictures. I've got a little job to do on the JAP Model 3 first, but I should get out there just after lunch.
If all goes well I will have a look at the boy's Lister D once the Tarpen's up & running. I would like to see if I can get the Lister to spark & see if I can free the carb off.

Can't wait!