Nutgone's Tarpen

Right, so, today the work continued. The pace is slowing somewhat, mainly due to the wait for paint to arrive, but I'm doing what I can.

I went to the paint shop looking for a small tin of black gloss, the only small tin they had was Hammerite Smooth, so I bought it. Then I regretted it, I'd forgotten just how crap their gloss paints are. I've spent some time as a painter & decorator, admittedly most of my glossing was on wood, but I have painted metal as well, albeit some time ago, but never have I used a paint like this. It goes on thick, horrible stuff, but there's loads of red primer showing through in places. How I wish I'd spent the extra & got the Rustoleum black, but I just couldn't afford the extra expense, & I didn't need a massive 750ml tin. I guess it'll just have to do, & I can always 2nd coat the really bad bits (it's not like it'll be noticed from a few feet away, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist)

My advice, stay away from the stuff. Their "Special Metals Primer" was brilliant stuff, went on a treat & seems to stick to the ally like the proverbial faeces to the bed-linen. I'd recommend that again (not the bed-linen thing, the primer )

So here's the black bits (minus the handle, that's hanging up somewhere else)......



Whilst I was doing this the doorbell rang. My dad answered it then promptly came through with a parcel for me. It was my new pulley (not bad, I only ordered it yesterday, late morning). I didn't get the chance of a pic of it before I covered it in primer......



Here's the Taper Lock bush side (which will be up against the genny, so out of sight).....



The other side's just plain.
I still have the rim from the old one, so I put it on top, for a size reference.......



Not bad eh? It's a millimetre or two larger, but I think the belt sits a little lower in the groove, so it should work out the same.
I must say, it's very well engineered, was also very reasonably priced, & those taper-lock bushes are available in imperial bore sizes. If anyone needs to get one I'll be glad to point you in the right direction. I think I ended up using "Belting Online", their site gives technical diagrams of all their bits, with measurements, very helpful.

Final job of the day, just before dinner, was to have a go at the old tyres with some Tyre & Bumper Restorer. I personally think they'll need another application......



So tomorrow the green paint arrives, & it's my last day where I'll get any real time to spend on the project before the preparation of my mum's birthday party.
My plan is to give everything a good coat of green, then leave it to harden over the weekend (I know it really needs a week or two, but I won't be able to leave it that long). Then I will reassemble it, painting any "difficult-to-reach" nuts & bolts as I go. But the main aim was going to be a full 2nd coat once assembled. Obviously this won't mean everywhere will get a 2nd coat, but it will mean the nuts & bolts get painted. Or I may just reassemble it & touch up all the nuts & bolts as I go, & just leave it at that.

It all depends on how well the green goes on. I don't want it to look like it's got several millimetres of paint on it though, I want it to look like it's just got it's factory coat of paint on. So we'll just have to wait & see.

One last point, a question really;
I need to clean out the petrol tank. I have some stones to rattle around in there, but what cleaning liquid should I use???

I've heard some say hot soapy water? But I don't like the idea of putting water in there. My dad says any spirit type stuff, I've got some 2 stroke mix, not much though, or I've got quite a lot of white spirit. What do you lot reckon?
It's pretty gunged up in there, with some flaky, rusty bits, & the petrol tap has, long ago, lost it's soldered on gauze filter, so there's no filter in the line (any suggestions for a replacement for this would be welcomed as well).

All comments & suggestions welcome

Applying Hammerite - if I have problems with it I usually mix in just a touch of white spirit, makes it 'feel' mush more like normal gloss and much easier to work with - a bit late now I know, but maybe handy for next time?

To clean out the tank, I wouldn't personally use stones as they tend to break up (you have to shake it like a mad bugger to get the rust out) - I have a tub of old small (1/2") but thick self tapping screws, nuts and the star washers with the points on the outside just for cleaning out tanks and 'gunk' (other degreasing formulas are available). White spirit or water to rinse after.

The advantage with a degreaser is it'll help break the 'varnish' from old fuel that sticks some of the rust on, and it's nowhere near as flammable as spirit or petrol based liquids you might use.

Remove the fuel tap first because whether there's a filter or not it'll get crap in it - just put a finger over the hole if you can't find a bolt that fits.

Paul

Look what came through the post this morning......



It's my lovely new "TARPEN" lettering for the tank & my new flex.

The lettering looks great, better than I could have expected. The flex looks a little light in colour. I did get a metre of a darker brown colour one some time ago, but it was too thin. This looked darker in the pictures, it's antique gold, there is a lighter gold one. Trouble is this stuff's expensive, usually over £3 per metre (closer to £4 actually) & this was on a special price for 5 metres.

I'm sure it'll look fine once it's on there, & it's bound to get dirty soon enough (well, that's what my dad said, little does he know I'll be doing my best to keep this engine clean & pristine ).
I suppose I could always dye it, if it bothers me that much. I'll see what I think once it's on there.

Off to pick up the green paint this afternoon, just gona have a quick go at cleaning out the petrol tank first.

I know what you mean when you say about the Hammerite smooth, what crap it is to use, I picked some up to paint the wheels on my van, I thinned it down everything but it just didn't want to go on even, never again will I buy that. It's a shame you didn't have the little bit extra to buy the rustolium as that's worth the money and you get a great finish with it, I've found now it costs me more to use cheap paint.
I use a tank sealer to clean my tanks, it's a bit expensive to buy but you can put it in the tank then what's not used pour back into the bottle, and it does go a long way if you've a few tanks to clean out.

Stu.

Just picked up the Rustoleum Green, it looks a bit bright, but I'm sure it'll be fine.

Not sure what to do about the black bits, it's a bit too late to use anything else now, guess I'll just have to re-coat where necessary.
I've had to be careful where green meets black, as I know many other paints don't sit well on top of Hammerite, so I was careful to wipe it off wherever it dripped through (mainly on the generator vents & bolt holes, as the genny is black inside, green outside).
If it all goes wrong I guess it'll be coming to bits again & I'll be buying a tin of Rustoleum black. Hopefully it'll be OK.

I'm off to do some painting, this could be a late job.......

OK, so the first coat of green is on, & for most of it I reckon just the one coat will do. This Rustoleum paint is great stuff, goes on like a "Proper" gloss paint should, which took some getting used to after yesterday's nightmare with the Hammerite Smooth Black. There are one or two runs here & there, but I can live with that. I'm sure these engines weren't originally painted that well, I expect it was just a case of assemble & throw some paint vaguely in the direction of it, & I am after an "original" finish, as much as possible.

So, no more stalling, here's the pics......



Now...... the colour.....

It's a bit bright. You have to remember it's still wet in the pictures, & it was in a dull shed, with flourescent lighting & my phone camera decided to use it's flash, which doesn't help.

But, these Tarpens were originally quite a light shade of green, & when I offered up the tiny bit of remaining paint to the colour chart even the woman in the shop said it was a good match. Sadly that last remaining bit has since disappeared under red primer, so I've got nothing to compare it to. But I think it's too bright

I could be wrong though, it's difficult to tell when it's all in bits. If I think it looks silly when it's all together I'll paint the centre of the genny black to break it up a bit. But I reckon it'll look fine.
I'm probably worrying over nothing.


So, that's it for a few days. Tomorrow I've got to clean the house up, ready for visiting relatives, & make a start on cooking about 500 sausage rolls for my mum's 60th birthday party on Saturday.
If I manage to get any free time I might put the flywheel back on the engine, just for something to do, but I would rather leave that until it's back together, as there's very little to get hold of, & that high-temp black paint shouldn't be handled too roughly until it's got hot & baked on properly.
(I'm gona be so bored without this engine to tinker with )

At least it'll give me a chance to have a damn good look round here. I've barely scratched the surface so far.

One other thing:-

Can anyone tell me how resistant to petrol this Rustoleum paint is?

I'm thinking it'll be a good idea to coat my vinyl lettering in some petrol-resistant lacquer, but I would still like to know how resistant this stuff is to petrol & oil (my dad's thinking of using this brand to re-paint the petrol tank on his Vellocette GTP).

I've found some aerosol cans of petrol resistant lacquer on eBay for £6.99, will probably buy a tin of that in a couple of weeks time (I'm all spent out now, & I want the paint to harden fully before I apply the vinyl lettering).

You wont get too bored, you can get my Stuart Turner running, then sort my garage out so we have a stationary engine workshop, THEN we can dig out the Douglas, Briggs, that strange American engine and that German engine and get them running!
That should keep you occupied for a while then I'll sell some guns, raise some cash and we can get some more projects off ebay

Ianhw77k wrote:You wont get too bored, you can get my Stuart Turner running, then sort my garage out so we have a stationary engine workshop, THEN we can dig out the Douglas, Briggs, that strange American engine and that German engine and get them running!
That should keep you occupied for a while then I'll sell some guns, raise some cash and we can get some more projects off ebay

I'll stick a broom up my backside while I'm at it then shall I???

Seriously though, that American engine is a good call, I reckon she'll run again, even if you don't. Maybe we should get moving, make some room then go rescue some engines

That green does seem a bit GREEN in those pics... I know what you mean about lighting and camera changing things though..

Still, looking good so far - never know, you might even resist racing stripes!

But, as with everything, it's yours - do it as you like it and be happy.

Paul

I don't think the colour is to bad, also I matched some paint of a chart it looked spot on till we opened the tin and it was miles away. So it could be a case of living with it, at least it's not another Mid Bruswick green so it should stand out from the rest.

Just a thought while your cooking the sausage rolls you could slip a few engine parts in to the oven to harden the paint off

I think that rustolium is petrol and oil proof but check it out on there web site and that should tell you, there is nothing stopping you giving it a coat of lacquer over the transfers to stop the petrol getting to them, this could be done at a later date when you have the funds.

Stu.

I might have some funds coming soon, will write another thread somewhere about it though, as I may need some input......

OK, since castings & polishing & over-restoring have all recently been discussed (notice I say "discussed", it really is a friendly place here ) I thought I'd ask for a few opinions on my Tarpen's shiny bits.

There are a few bits on this engine which, I'm told, should remain paint free. These are aluminium castings. Now, aluminium was quite new back then (don't forget, we are talking 1930s with these sets, even though most people think they're 40s or 50s) & the technologies were somewhat in their infancy, or at least things were done cheaply, as I expect ally castings were pricey back then.

So, these "shiny" bits aren't that shiny.
Take the engine cowl for instance. Here's a few close up shots of it......





Any thoughts on this???

So far I have stripped all the paint, wire brushed (by hand, I really must buy a drill brush attachment), very quickly sanded with P120 then again with P500, then given a dose of Autosol & buffed off. & that was BEFORE I took those pics, so to get much better is likely to take some serious elbow grease!

Maybe I should get a drill wire brush attachment & have another go? Maybe I should leave it as Mr Tarpen intended, character intact.

I know roughly what I'm going to do, this part isn't high on my list of priorities, but I would be interested to hear what others would do, & maybe even get a few ideas.

(No rights or wrongs, each to his own, I'm a great believer in that).

I tried to post this a few days ago, but couldn't include the link, so now I'm over 7 days membership, here goes again....

If anyone's interested in seeing the complete photo album of this restoration, it can be viewed here.....

http://photobucket.com/nutgonesengines

Don't all rush at once!

old alloy never looks like it did when new, seems to me there are 3 choices

leave it as is

paint it silver

prime it and rub it down to a nice smooth finish and paint it the colour of your choice

i always believe the colour scheme is the choice of the owner and i paint whatever colour i feel is right, i Painted my Petter green and black so as not to look like all the other engines in the line..............i used the wrong green too

If it were mine, I wouldn't paint it.

I'd use a toothbrush and autosol to polish it as it is.

You could almost get a mirror finish on that, but chances are you'd still have voids from bubbles in the casting (think aero) and it'd remove a lot of material to get it smooth. I've done it on similar before and it took an age - think 120 grit, then 400, then 600. then 800, then 1200 - took that many steps to get all the scratches from the previous grade out... Still had some pock-marks from voids too.

Wire brushes in drills: really useful for lots of things but cleaning aluminium is not one of them - not a steel wire one anyway, it'll rip it up. A brass one would be ok but not last very long.

Paul

Toothbrush and Autosol sounds like a good idea.
I know what you mean Paul about polishing up metal with wet and dry, it can be hard work. I do the same thing with air rifle pistons but they're a bit easier as you can spin them in a drill.

Matt, that casting was originally rough as it was sand cast. I expect if they weren't painted from the factory they would have been given a wipe over with an oily rag and sent on their merry way. If you did polish it up in the very time consuming and painstaking way described above (the only proper way) I reckon it would look a bit silly.


De-greaser (or petrol) with a stiff nylon (or maybe brass) brush, then toothbrush and Autosol, then buff with a clean rag and see what you think.

TBH I wasn't even going to go that far. I was pretty much going to leave it as is. Especially as it already has Autosol on it.

But, I've got a few days of watching paint dry (literally, well harden, but it's just as boring) so I may have another go at it.

Tonight I gave the rubber coupling a go with the tyre & bumper restorer, as well as giving the tyres another application of it. I even gave the fan belt a wipe with the impregnated rag (probably a bad idea, but the fan's very easy running & that stuff rejuvenates rubber & stops moisture getting into it).

BTW, I'm not so sure that's the "wrong" green, I did research it quite thoroughly. But it doesn't look quite right to me, at the moment. It has dulled a bit, with drying, & looks better outside, under natural sunlight.
I've got a feeling it'll look better as the machine comes together.

If I have time I will probably rebuild the wheels on Sunday, & maybe start to put the chassis together. That'll mean the green paint will have had 3 days & the black paint 4, not really enough, but it's only the wheels & chassis, & I'll see how it goes.

I would LOVE to have it all back together & running on Wednesday, as that marks 2 weeks since I took it to bits. I think a full nut & bolt, bare metal rebuild in 2 weeks is pretty damn good going. But I'm not counting any chickens.

Nutgone, personally, the best way to achieve as near as dammit original finish would be to use alloy wheel cleaner and a toothbrush, work it into the pock marks and dimples to bring them back to as new as you can get , then wipe it over with clean oil and that,ll be that, anything more would be "over restoring" and would start to look like bling just my thoughts, and btw, cracking resto. brilliant updates. Jon

janner wrote:........alloy wheel cleaner......

I've got some in the garage (or in the boot of the car), a special foam one in an aerosol, works wonders on my old BMW's cross-spokes, should bring this up a treat.

I'll give it a test first, just to be sure, on an inconspicuous bit (I have one of those as well ).

Thanks for that.

If not I have some caustic based detergent that brings alloy up brilliantly, can send you a small pot in the post for very small fee, just brush it on and work it in lightly with a brush and watch it turn to a white fizz, then rinse with water and apply wd40 or similar to stop it powdering the alloy and you would be impressed , the alloy wheel cleaner should work the same way, but might not be a strong as my stuff , working selling chemicals has its benefits !!! can even supply acids that,ll do the job too, but you have to be really careful with them !!!! Jon

First thanks for post the link to the pics, very interesting step by step restoration. Second I'd just use autosol and a tooth brush or a green nylon scrubber, the alloy is always going to dull down after a few days so it's going to be an on going job it you want to keep it shiny. How does it look next to the green paint as it might have a good enough look already.

Just as a reminder guys careful when sanding down old paint as it might contain lead so always wear a mask, I'd also wear a mask if rubbing down aluminium.

Stu.

OK, so I've done a little more (even though I'm not even supposed to be in the workshop today ).

I've treated all the ally bits to a dose of my alloy-wheel cleaner, scrubbed them with a toothbrush, then given them a thin coating of Autosol, & scrubbed again with the toothbrush, adding a little WD40 to help the Autosol along. Then I cleaned them off & buffed with a microfibre cloth (great for buffing, mine's quite a pricey one, bought for the car, but you can get Tesco Value ones).

TBH it's a lot of work for very little difference, but I think it has actually made a difference.....



Now I don't know if you noticed from that last image, but I've also had a go at restoring the plaque on the engine cowl. It was in pretty bad shape, & has always been pretty much like that. All the others I've seen look much better, but they also have much longer serial numbers.

Here's a quick before & after.....





Basically I came up with the idea the other day & thought I'd give it a go (well, i couldn't make it much worse, could I?)

I used some blackboard paint (I have a full tin & a half tin lying around), a piece of rag & some very small pieces of fine wet & dry paper (probably not fine enough, but P500 was all I had to hand).
I'll leave you lot to work out what I did, it's pretty simple really. I was hoping for a slightly better finished effect, but I still think it looks much better than it did, & I'm pretty pleased with it.

Hopefully I can crack on tomorrow afternoon with the wheels & build up the chassis. I've looked over the paint job, there's quite a few minor runs in it. I always find I don't load the brush up enough when I'm glossing, but I still manage to get runs . Must be doing something wrong.
Still, they are only minor, I doubt the factory paint job was up to much in those days anyway. I'm still relatively pleased with it.

I'd agree that the aluminium will dull quickly between polishes. A lot of people would lacquer that to save the polish.

It might seem strange, but I find that using a wax based furniture polish (pledge or similar) is quick and easy to use as a 'buff up'. I think it's better than lacquer as it'll never chip, it protects the surface nicely, water beads off it and it really reduces the need for 'proper' polishing. Also, unlike lacquer, it doesn't make a 'shell' that moisture can get trapped behind - I've seen lots of polished and lacquered metal with corrosion starting under what was supposed to protect it. It also won't affect most paints so if you slip and get some off the alloy it won't matter.

Maybe worth considering?

I'm hoping Autosol will keep it from dulling for a good while, but I know it won't last for ever.

I like the furniture polish idea though, I've actually got some proper Hard Wax car polish, I'd thought about using that (mainly because I've already got it), I would guess it should amount to pretty much the same thing as furniture polish???

I'll be sure to take something like that along with me to the rallies anyway.

The usual problem piece is the copper fuel pipes (& various bits of brass), we were for ever polishing the copper pipes on these engines. I've seen it tarnish under lacquer as well, so I know that's not an option.

I will probably lacquer the fuel tank though, as I want to protect the vinyl lettering that's going on it. Not for the expense, but just because it would be a pain to have to re-apply the whole thing, especially as it would most likely only be one or two letters that get damaged, the rest would need peeling off, which would probably scratch the paint & I'd be in a right mess.
So that'll get a coat or two of petrol resistant lacquer (only £6.99 a can on eBay).