Nutgone goes all Lister! (Lister A tank cooled project).

Like I said, I'm sure it'll look fine. I probably shouldn't have compared it to the other shades of green.

nutgone wrote:Like I said, I'm sure it'll look fine. I probably shouldn't have compared it to the other shades of green.

Yep, but its annoying when you see a colour you like, order some and it turns out completely different! Looking at the sample of Lincoln Green, I really liked it, but in the flesh I'm not so sure. Luckily that's not my engine and the owner wont worry what colour it is so long as its green runs perfect and doesn't leak oil! As your not likely to keep the Lister then so long as the tin says Mid Brunswick!

Dare I say it? I don't much like the Brunswick shades anyway. I much prefer the Bronze greens. If it were mine though I would probably paint it in oil based blackboard paint & treat it to the stove black polish. I like that finish....



Or maybe in RAF Blue/Grey or that Stuart Green.

As long as it's painted in the colour/shade you like what's the problem. It's your engine do as you want to it, I'd rather see the engine up and running then worry about it's colour. I once picked a colour of a chart and had some mixed up, 5 minutes later he returned opened the tin and it was way of the shade I wanted. I asked if he could put a few squirts of black in to darken it down but instead he made a new batch and we worked out if the one I picked was 2 light then finder a darker shade and try that. The shade we went for looked nothing like the shade I wanted but had the guy mix it all the same, he came back opened the tin and it was spot on!!! After that I gave up trying to match shades and buying it by it's name i.e. bronze green, now it just a bit pot luck to get the correct shade but as long as you have enough to do 1 engine then that's ok or made mix it your self the next time by adding a bit of a lighter/darker shade added.

Stu.

Blimey! It's bee a while since I said anything about this one. I've been getting side-tracked with the Bamford, trying to get it apart etc etc. (& largely succeeding, as most of that one is now in boxes). But one night last week (possibly Wednesday, could've been Thursday) my dad was out at one of his old bike club meets & he'd taken one of his old bikes, so with the extra space in the workshop for the evening I thought I would get some work done on the Lister.

I started by prepping & painting the flywheels, which have just been propped up against a fence since they came off, with their first primer coat. I used the wire brush on the drill (which is getting very worn down now, I must get a new one, & a couple for the angle grinder), most of the old paint wasn't coming off though, I guess it's original, some of you may gasp in horror, but I don't like the working clothes look much, they never look finished to me. If I had one that was a bit special & had original paint left I would consider leaving it, but on the whole when I do a restoration I like to do the whole thing & paint the nuts & bolts as well (it's just my way, there are many others, none are right or wrong really). Besides, this one didn't have enough original paint left in any case.

Anyway, here they are....





Then I thought I'd better make a start on the crank case. A few days earlier I had emptied out the special oil absorbent granules (AKA expensive wood based cat litter that our cats didn't like) & the crank case is the last of the bits to be cleaned (well, there is the base, but that's not in the same league of dirtiness). It's one of those jobs I hate! It needs a professional steam cleaner/hot wash with a load of industrial chemicals, but all I have is an old cat litter tray (now cracked), some home made easing oil/parts wash solution & a selection of different brushes & scrapers....



Well I gave it one good go, then rinsed off with brake & clutch cleaner. Then I gave it another go & rinsed off again. It could go back together as it is, but it wouldn't be right & I wouldn't be happy with it, so I've ordered some industrial chemicals off eBay & will give it another shot. I've also sprayed it with my home made easing oil/parts wash solution, as I have recently discovered this stuff is really good for de-coking engines, it gets stubborn carbon deposits off really quickly, so it might be good on some of the more stubborn caked on crud in the timing chest area (that's the worst bit)....



I have also started a new Photobucket album for this restoration, as my old Photobucket account was getting full up so I have opened up a new one. The photos from now on can be found here....

https://s1316.photobucket.com/user/Nutgone1/library/Stationary%20Engine%20Projects/Lister%20A%20Tank%20Cooled%20Project

I have also discovered that this engine is indeed an early model, a spec 55 (equivalent to a spec 15 hopper cooled, which is pretty early as I think they started in 1923 with spec 10 for hopper & spec 50 for tank, so this is only the 5th design change from when they started), this one is 1925.

"But it has a later 4" barrel with non-caged valves & a later breather!" I hear you say.... "Surely it's a bitsa with an older crankcase door put on???"

Well I've been reading up on these engines, & it seems Lister supplied kits for people to modify their older engines & bring them into line with the newer stock. This was either done by a Lister agent or the kits were supplied to a customer to be fitted by a competent fitter/engineer. These kits included a replacement 4" barrel, different magnetos, & other bits & bobs. I have checked the parts numbers (cast into many of these bits) & the barrel does have the correct number to verify this. Also it still has it's original 1925 carb, as carbs weren't supplied with these kits, the barrels were made to take the old ones. The magneto may not have been changed, but if it was it would've been supplied with an adaptor plate. I happen to have an adaptor plate which would do that job, so I could go ahead & get myself a Hovis type Lucas RS1 magneto for this engine & it would still be very much in keeping (I've been looking into the ML mags, but they are fetching silly money).

The bottom end of this engine is all pure, original 1925. The crank shaft has the earlier narrow key-ways for the cam gear & mag sprocket & the flywheels both bear the same engine number as the brass engine plate. The only thing that wasn't changed was the engine plate itself, as the HP rating should have gone up by half a Horse Power (I think). This is what leads me to think this work was not done by Lister.

Anyway, enough of the history lesson. I went out to the workshop again tonight & put a 2nd coat of primer on the flywheels.

A couple of weeks ago I got my valves back from someone who has re-ground the faces for me, so I ground them in last week when I did the Bamford ones (they didn't take much grinding with re-faced valves & re-cut seats ), so tomorrow I may clean the barrel & give that a coat of primer too. It shouldn't be long before I can start getting it back together. Of course it still needs a magneto, tanks & a trolley, but I can work on those. I have ordered one new compression ring & an oil scraper from the states. I will probably give it a try with the oil scraper out though, just to see what it's like (I'm kind of proving a point either way there), but it will go back in, in the end (well, it won't be of any use to me out of the engine, these rings are dirt cheap from America as well, I will write up on my experiences with that company in the suppliers section when I'm done with them).

OK, been a bit busy with this one today & a few days ago, cleaning up the large pieces. I've also been getting side tracked with other stuff, like welding up a stand off a Triumph 3T motorbike (I show a bit of promise with our old oil filled arc machine & suddenly I'm a welder , getting called upon for all sorts of welding jobs). 

I've also been struck down with a mystery illness (probably a stomach thing, didn't last long), a piece of metal in my eye (have now ordered some safety specs ) & today have been struck down with a bad back! (I'm blaming that one on the cats) Still I have persevered, as much as I can....

My problem was the crank case. It was badly encrusted with caked on grime, the oil trough (a silly design flaw anyway) was pretty gunged-up. Previously I had a go with my home-made easing oil/parts cleaner, but it was very slow progress. so I searched eBay & decided to invest in some proper industrial chemicals....



On the left we have what was sold to me as a powerful engine de-greaser. It turns out to be a water based industrial strength floor cleaner. I tried it out neat & it wasn't much cop, so I read the instructions & discovered it needs to be diluted with water, at least 10:1 for the toughest jobs, & up to 200:1 for general light cleaning! (so pretty strong stuff). So I mixed some up at 10:1 & it is very good stuff. At least as good as Gunk or any of the others, & should last ages at those light dilutions. Also it's water based, so doesn't have to be caught & disposed of specially (luckily I'm working over gravel/stones, which act as a good soak-away).

On the right we have "Special D" parts cleaner. This is hydrocarbon based (hydrocarbons are basically what petrol & diesel are made of) with added detergents & is basically what is used in garage parts wash machines. It smells like diesel & can even be diluted with diesel, paraffin or kerosene. It should not be washed away, but should be caught & re-used, so I'm adding it to my home made parts wash/easing oil solution (I hope it doesn't ruin it's easing oil properties). I noticed it tends to settle out the crud & dirt very quickly, you only need to leave it for a short while & it settles out quite nicely, leaving the sludge at the bottom. This chemical is flammable though, so care should be taken. Also, it's worth wearing gloves with both of these chemicals. The parts wash isn't so bad, but the de-greaser stuff made my hands itch very quickly (& I never normally wear gloves, these things don't tend to bother me). Good job I bought a box of nitrile medical examination gloves at the last rally.

So basically we have 2 very different chemicals which both do a similar job. I decided to start with the parts wash, over a large oven tin/tray type thing, to get the real stubborn stuff off. I used some kitchen scourers (like Scotchbrite) & the usual wire & nylon brushes, then rinsed down with some brake & clutch cleaner & put what came off back through my filter system & into my recycled parts wash bottle. 

Then I went at everything with the engine de-greaser (floor cleaner stuff). I got some more kitchen scourer & went at it all in much the same way. I then rinsed it down with more of this de-greaser solution (as I don't have to catch it & it's largely water I could afford to be decadent with the stuff). Then rain stopped play, so I left the crank case out there to get rinsed off naturally.

The next morning it was rusty! I couldn't believe it! I think it was more the corrosive properties of the de-greaser that caused the rapid surface rust, but it wouldn't rust if there were oil or grease on it. Don't get me wrong, it was still pretty cruddy in a couple of places, but the chemicals had done a very good job. My only problem now was the lack of a spray bottle. I've put brake & clutch cleaner through all my trigger spray bottles & it's broken every single one, so I ordered some of the pump spray bottles & just had to wait for them to arrive.

So today they arrived & I repeated the above processes once more. This time I got a bucket of hot soapy water to rinse off the final de-greaser after a good scrub down. This seems to have helped a lot, but really it is only a rinse. If I had a jet washer I would've used that instead (the water based de-greaser will rinse off with just plain water)

Here's the results....













Any moisture you see in those pictures is just water, there is no trace of oil in there. So I'm happy with my new chemicals. I will post up some links if anyone's interested. I know the company is called "Spacialised Aerosols" & that is the name of their eBay shop. Those chemicals are available in 5 litre or 25 litre containers. I bought 5 litres of each, but may get bigger next time (I didn't want to buy big containers in case it was rubbish). But I may give some others a try.

Next I just need some wire brush wheels for my angle grinder. I have ordered some from a link Stu put up some time ago. I have got one here already, for the drill, but it's pretty well knackered now. Once these cup brushes arrive I will give these last, large bits a good going over then get a coat of primer on them.

I've got one more jam jar of nuts & bolts (from the crank case) to clean up, then it's all painting & putting-together.

Just need to find a magneto & a couple of tanks now. Build myself a trolley & job's a good-un.  
(first thing's first though, just want her back together & get a working mag, so I can get her running).

Busy busy busy! I've had some paint brushes out these past few days, cracking on with the Lister....









I'm not going to paint the crank case until I get my new wire brush wheels. I'm very anxious to make a real nice job of this one.

Looks really good matt, what paint company do you use?

Teamac primer (great stuff) & I use Bradite ME53 Fastrac enamel paints for the top coat (you can get that stuff from most good paint suppliers, I like it, but I usually thin it down a bit for the final coat).

Well the wire brush grinder wheels turned up today. Blimey they're evil things. I had been warned about them & told they're not like the drill powered ones. So I wore my overalls, gloves & eye protection & had a go.

I was told that these things really do "Take No Prisoners" & that information was indeed correct. No loose clothing, no letting the power cord to get in the way, these things are nasty & they do take metal off (you can see the sparks), so extra care & caution to anyone out there who is thinking about using one. Wear good, thick gloves & good quality eye protection. Something flew up at one point & got me in the neck, but fortunately it must've been a bit of paint or something, as it didn't bed in or draw any blood, but it damn well hurt! So take it easy with these things people.

Anyway, what a brilliant piece of kit for cleaning off old rust & paint! I've really cracked on with this one today. I think every piece has now been at least cleaned, if not completely de-greased, rinsed off & primed.

Here's the latest bits, the crank case has finally got a coat of primer & the base got it's second coat....



Then I set to the barrel/head piece with my newly acquired chemicals....



Then that got attacked with the wire brush grinder attachment & got a coat of primer....



So, just the crank case & barrel to get a compulsory 2nd primer coat, then I can start thinking about putting it together.

Won't be doing any of this tomorrow though, as I'm going to pick up the little baby Stuart down near Portsmouth somewhere.

It was too late to take pictures the other night, but I had a little play about & ended up with this little sculpture in the garden (all done up finger tight)....





Now, I know the term for an engine with no head (or no head & barrels) is a "Short" engine, so what's one like this called??? A "Narrow" engine perhaps?

Anyway, it must have got rained on last night (didn't cover it up), but there's no internals, it's just a bare shell, I just wanted to see what it looked like & I wanted all the bits out of my way somewhere, this seemed the logical choice.

Thats looking a whole heap better !.

I will second what you say about the wire brushes for the angle grinder, they are excellent and really rip rust off. However they are really dangerous, when I was doing the Lister D bits of wire were flying out, and did embed themselves in me. So its safety glasses for sure, as one of the wires embedded in your eye really will do no good, and I can also vouch as to how well they rip skin and flesh off, I was being lazy, no gloves, the wheel caught and threw back at me and caught the hand i was holding the work with !!, that hurt !

Look forward to hearing this one run, good work there and your threads make a good read.

Thanks for that.

Another thing about those wire wheels, some of them are only rated for about 8'500rpm, & most grinders (well, the small ones at least) run at 10'000rpm. It is stamped on each one, on the red, inner wheel, part. I got a set of 4 which included a pair of each type. Both types are rated at 12'500. If they hadn't been I would've sent them back as they were advertised as being suitable for "All Angle Grinders".

Of course the best way would be to get a variable speed grinder, but I got mine off freecycle & beggars can't be choosers. (it is a Bosch though & came with about 10 brand new metal cutting discs, a couple of spare parts & the disc spanner, good old Freecycle).

Anyway, as far as this engine is concerned, I'm busy with the little Stuart Turner R3 at the moment, but I've kind of come to a standstill waiting for a couple of box spanners to arrive, so I might get on with some more painting tomorrow. There's the head/barrel & the crank case to 2nd coat with primer & I can start getting a 1st top coat on some other bits. 

I've also got to choose a colour scheme. I want to pick 1 or 2 bits out in black, like the governor rods, governor weights (possibly), some carb parts, valve springs & possibly a couple other parts, not sure yet. 

Any colour scheme ideas will be gratefully received, but the main colour is Lister green (mid-brunswick). Other colours available are black, red, orange, silver & gold. Sump drain plug will be red, as is now my trademark. (I usually also paint oil fillers black, but probably won't on this one, usually only do that when they are small ones which could be mistaken for a nut or bolt).

Oh yes, & most nuts & bolts will be primed & painted. Not all of them though, just the ones that should be painted & would've been painted originally. I know a lot of people don't paint them these days, but I like to think I'm being more original (honestly though I just can't stand to leave bits un-painted that will rust & I really can't think of anything else to do with them which will cause me less problems than just painting the buggers). Might just Kurust the ones for the crank case door & the barrel (I like the Kurust effect).

That's starting to look pretty good Nut,

I really like those engines in the first place, but I just know that yours will be exceptional when it is done lol.
Been away for a bit and feel like an alien from a space ship..., In and out like a ghost!
But I'm still ticking and back soon with a few more things to say on my "D".

Good job!
Regards, John.

Blimey, I've got some updating to do on this thread. These parts are turning green at a fair rate now.

Must remember to keep taking those pics. Will see about updating tonight.

Cheers John, I was wondering what had happened to you, haven't seen about here for a while. Glad you're still in .

nutgone wrote:Blimey, I've got some updating to do on this thread. These parts are turning green at a fair rate now.

Must remember to keep taking those pics. Will see about updating tonight.

Cheers John, I was wondering what had happened to you, haven't seen about here for a while. Glad you're still in .

 its good to see the pics

OK, so I've come back in especially to post some pictures for you lot (well, I actually came in to watch Countyrfile, but I guess at the age of 33 I probably shouldn't be admitting stuff like that). 

Anyway, here goes....

I've treated a load of different bits with the Kurust for them to look something like natural blackened nuts, bolts, bits & bobs without actually painting them & not just leaving them to go rusty in time (the glossy finish will dull down in time)....





I've also given both wheels a 1st & 2nd gloss coat (not sure if they'll need a 3rd or not, will see what it looks like as it goes back together)....





I also gave the crank case end plates a 1st & 2nd coat. The governor arm has been left & will be painted black....



The main engine parts (crank case & head/barrel) have now had 2 good primer coats & will get their 1st top coat tonight. The base has had it's 1st top coat & will probably get it's 2nd tonight as well (note the Kurusted bits which will not be painted)....



& finally onto the carb. This will have a mixture of painted body & kurust treated bits. It has now had it's 2 primer coats, sand back & 2 top coats & the bits have been kurusted. I am anxious to get this done early as it needs to go off properly & then be sprayed with petrol resistant lacquer. I loosely put it together this morning....





So there you go, some nice pics. I hope it looks OK, I'm really trying to go all out on this one & get it looking really nice. I even went out today & bought the wood to make the trolley, I'm going to push my carpentry skills to the limit, hopefully I won't have to paint this one to hide all my dodgy screws & brackets! & I'm being really picky with the paintwork. I am a bit of a perfectionist anyway, but I've got a point to prove with this one. 

I know it won't be "original" with the Kurusted bits & black painted governor parts, but the next owner can easily change it if they wish. At least the green is the correct shade & I reckon the minimal black parts will break it up quite nicely. Well, we'll see when it goes together.

Now, I need a mag. Hovis type (Lucas RS1) anticlockwise rotation.

I also need a working coil for a WICO A series mag. Anyone??? I might be able to swap something or even offer services (got any old condensers you want rebuilding?) as part or full payment. Or just pay cash/PayPal. (Don't mind paying, but prefer to barter a bit if I can, especially between enthusiasts).

Looks good especially with the kurusted parts!

Looking good Matt, ready for Wiston?

Watching Countryfile! Whatever next? Mind you Julia and Ellie are both quite fit

Cheers Lewis .

In an effort to keep this thread up to date I will now report on the fruits of this evening's labours....

first of all I gave the few black painted parts (the governor arm, the 2 throttle governor link rods, the 2 governor weights & the valve spring base caps) their 2nd coat of black paint. Most of these parts have been painted rather than Kurusted because I primed them before I realised I wanted them to be black. The valve spring bases wouldn't go rusty, so had to be painted instead.

I haven't got any pics of these bits, except the governor arm, which is attached to the crank case side plate. This has only had it's 1st top coat of black....



I had to paint this with a large artists brush, so I didn't over-paint onto the green bits.

The black paint I am using is some new stuff I picked up yesterday. It's the Lidl brand of metal paint with rust inhibitors. It is a self undercoating, exterior metal paint, much like Hammerite claims to be & Rustoleum actually is, but whereas Rustoleum is almost £20 for 750ml, this stuff is only £4.99 for an entire litre. It is very thin, but sure enough the 2nd coat goes on really well & coats very nicely. I haven't tried it on bare metal yet though, but if they've got any left next time I'm in I will definitely be buying some more, I really rate it.

Now, on with the job....

I started the green painting by sanding down the primer on the barrel/head piece & the crank case. I also sanded down the last few pieces still in primer. Then I just lightly sanded the base, which already has it's 1st top coat, ready to give it another one.

The head got done first....



I decided to paint the valve guides green as I thought they would look nice through the Kurusted valve springs....



Then the crank case had it's turn....



I also gave the base it's 2nd top coat....



& finally did the other little bits in green & the sump drain plug got the signature post-office red treatment....



So there you go. Every bit now has it's final colour on it, although not all have their final top coat. I will give them 2 or 3 days to go off then give them all a 2nd coat, so everything will have 2 top coats. I think I will then start to assemble it, see how it looks & maybe go or a third top coat when it's together, so only on the main bits which will be seen. But it may be fine with just the 2 top coats. Most of my other engines just have 2, but for some reason this time it doesn't seem to have covered quite so well. maybe I'm just being picky. I'm trying to avoid thick gloss coats though, they never look good & as we are always told; 2 thin coats are better than 1 thick one.

Can't wait to start assembling it now, although I'm not going to hurry. I want to give the paint time to harden off before assembling. I could do with something else to turn my attention to, & today the weather gave me an answer. It's been really windy here lately & when I got home today (after being out helping my brother with a workbench) the wind had reminded me of another project that has been started recently....



There's plenty to keep me occupied on that while the paint's hardening off on this one.

Still need that Lister mag folks, if anyone has one going for sale.

Sorry Mark, I missed your post while I was writing that one.

Dunno about Wiston, maybe if I had a magneto for it, it wouldn't be completely finished though, even then. 

Main trouble now is I've still got my car to work on. Got to do a track-rod end & fix the drivers door lock, get it insured & see if it'll pass an MOT. Once that's done I can give the engines my full attention.

I bought some wood today to make a trolley, but I'm now thinking it may be a bit thin. Time will tell I guess.

nutgone wrote:Sorry Mark, I missed your post while I was writing that one.

Dunno about Wiston, maybe if I had a magneto for it, it wouldn't be completely finished though, even then. 

Main trouble now is I've still got my car to work on. Got to do a track-rod end & fix the drivers door lock, get it insured & see if it'll pass an MOT. Once that's done I can give the engines my full attention.

I bought some wood today to make a trolley, but I'm now thinking it may be a bit thin. Time will tell I guess.

I was only being funny  Wiston's only 2 weeks away now! You will need more than that for the paint to harden, unless we get a heatwave  BTW don't worry about no passes yet, no ones got any so far, guess their hanging on in case the weather turns real poo  As you know, the site is a little undulating to get into.

I know you were joking (well kind of), but I see these things as a challenge! . But in all seriousness I should take my time with this one & let the paint harden off properly. There's no rush.

As for Wiston, I got my passes this morning. I will be going down there on Thursday, all being well. Just need to insure, tax & MOT my car. Hopefully there will be enough cash left in the pot for petrol money there & back! 

Looking good mate soon have it up and running

Cheers Abes, I certainly hope so. Even if I don't find a mag I reckon I can still cobble something together to get her started.

I took the 1st lot of brass bits out of the jar of battery acid this morning (they've been in a couple of days now). They needed to be rinsed off, wire brushed & polished. I got the 1st bit done then my dad asked me to come & give him a hand with his car (bleeding brakes in). Then I looked at my car & thought "I'd better get that track-rod end fitted". So I fitted it (what a bitch of a job that was!) then realised the other side track-rod end was even worse! Perhaps the other side was the one I was supposed to be changing in the first place! (need to check last years MOT, as it got an advisory). I really hope I haven't spent all that time changing the wrong one! . Oh well, it's have them both done in the next few days, I've ordered another one, they're only £6-odd.

I will finish polishing the brass tonight (if I've got enough energy left). the next lot is in the battery acid now, couple of days in there & there will only be the 2 valve plugs to do (they need doing one at a time though, they only just go in the jam jar).

As usual, H&S applies. Anyone using battery acid to clean up brass bits please be careful. Eye protection should be worn, as should some form of gloves. Best to keep a small bottle of clean water nearby as well, just in case.