Not had a Lister in 25 years......

Off out tomorrow to pick up my first Lister in 25 years or so, knowing me it's not the obvious choice of one of their 4 strokes but the unusual 2 stroke.
Should have more information once I've got it.

Badge engineering !!!!!!!!!!!

I think that Henry Bramham has one the same or similar? His seems to run ok and isn't overly heavy to move around.

Pete.

maryalice wrote:Badge engineering !!!!!!!!!!!

Is it though? Don't think it's been identified and another manufacturer, the badge engineering idea was just speculation IIRC. The carburettor is stamped Lister.

I think that Henry Bramham has one the same or similar? His seems to run ok and isn't overly heavy to move around.

Pete.

Not sure about the owner but yes seems to run well and is small enough.

All the history I've read about Listers, there is never a mention of a two stroke, the american aircooled from memory had Lister markings and most of their pumps were made by others with listers name on and if its rare its a sign of not being very good particularly as they were into mass production of everything else.

Maryalice

Wonder who did make it, surely it doesn't have the hall-mark of Lister style about it. It would be amusing if it was made by Stuart Turner though Steve, and would make you feel better about it! The late Ken Bridges used to rally a fully restored one in red; it was found in some sheds behind the Dursley works; See SE issue 424. Whatever became of it?
Eric

I've just googled Lister two stroke and the only response is diesels, it looks Stuart-esc to me.

Maryalice

It may have been from a small batch that RA Lister got in to evaluate and to test the market, who knows. Sadly we no longer have David Harris who was 'on the ball' with all things Lister. Had he known, then surely DWE would have had something about it in an Engine Torque. An interesting mystery though.
E

maryalice wrote:I've just googled Lister two stroke and the only response is diesels, it looks Stuart-esc to me.

All the history I've read about Listers, there is never a mention of a two stroke, the american aircooled from memory had Lister markings and most of their pumps were made by others with listers name on and if its rare its a sign of not being very good particularly as they were into mass production of everything else.

Maryalice
 

Oh yea was never mass-produced, other examples have been found with markings on the flywheel (degrees IIRC) indicating it may have been a test engine.
The Air-cooled were Wisconsin engines, the G range was based on LeRoi engines and Brownwall made engines for Lister.
I don't mind if it's badge-engineered, it would be nice to know the manufacturer, but Lister put the carb on (or at least cast their name on the float chamber top) and they advertised it.
Stuarts, being my Mastermind specialist subject; I'm pretty confident it's not one or based on one, Stuart at the time had introduced the P4 and the N type filled this niche. Stuart had made motorcycles engine for people in the past and they collaborated on an engine during WW2 but I can't see it being made Stuart, Lister was the competition after all.  

Wonder who did make it, surely it doesn't have the hall-mark of Lister style about it. It would be amusing if it was made by Stuart Turner though Steve, and would make you feel better about it! The late Ken Bridges used to rally a fully restored one in red; it was found in some sheds behind the Dursley works; See SE issue 424. Whatever became of it?
Eric

As do it, the carb mixture wheel looks to be off a Lister D, in the same thought it doesn't share any of the Stuart hall-marks apart from being 2 stroke.  Thank you for the additional photos.

It may have been from a small batch that RA Lister got in to evaluate and to test the market, who knows. Sadly we no longer have David Harris who was 'on the ball' with all things Lister. Had he known, then surely DWE would have had something about it in an Engine Torque. An interesting mystery though.

That's probably the case and the one with degrees on the flywheel would follow that idea. Just seems odd they would produce the sales information, I've seen another version with more info on the bottom, but alas I can't find it.

Smokstak hasn't pulled any ideas to an American lineage.

I doubt if there would have been competition between Lister and Stuart as Lister didnt make anything that small in Horse Power, their bread and butter engines were 1.5hp and upwards.

Maryalice

maryalice wrote:I doubt if there would have been competition between Lister and Stuart as Lister didnt make anything that small in Horse Power, their bread and butter engines were 1.5hp and upwards.

Maryalice

That's what I mean, why would Stuart produce an engine for Lister to allow them into a market that Stuart was doing pretty well in?
The Little-Lister-Light would be a direct competitor to the outgoing P3, the then-current N-type and the new P4.

Well, this had created a bit of conversation!

I will put it another way, Renault designed a van, Vauxhall built it and put Renault, Vauxhall and Nissan badges on it, everybody was in competition with each other but everybody got to sell it under their own name, I doubt Stuart bothered if it was going to get business into their factory to have another name on it.

Maryalice

There is that, but they share a common platform, this doesn't share design aspects of Mr Plint (ST Design engineer in the earlier years), please see below engines of the period, late and early N type and a Early P4.

I'm open to the idea that Stuart could have produced it, but speculation doesn't swing it for me, especially being a fan of ST engines.

More than likely if Lister didn't produce it, it came from America, as with the other engine Lister sold under their name.

Why so against it being called a Lister?




S

Show me where I said I'm against it being a Lister, I'm just putting forward ideas to show that its likely to have been badge engineered whether it was Stuart or an American company.

Maryalice

Fair enough, "Badge engineering !!!!!!!!!!!" is a bit of an opening statement.
I'm more inclined towards American than Stuart without firm evidence, at the moment all the evidence we have is it appears on line 209 of Listers records with the details carburettor made in house, line 210 is a G2 which were an American LeRoi engine made under licence.

Lister did use both JAP 34 two stroke and JAP 2A four stroke engines on their small portable shearing sets, and also Briggs and Stratton four stroke engines as well. Some of the two strokes had the Lister script transfer on the cowling where the J.A.P logo was usually embossed, probably because there was nowhere else to put their name as there was no base because the units were designed for hanging on gates etc for shearing in the field. They were certainly not averse to using engines from other makers for applications where they had none of their own.

Pete.

Lister auto trucks used JAP single and V-Twins as well, though not re-badged from what I can tell.

I'm totally happy if it is a bought-in engine, I've always been more interested companies failed projects than the once that succeed, give me an Amanco colt or pony any day! I'd like to know more about the little engine and its provenance with evidence.

It has landed.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1Wq4oU4wd2HSu1x97

cranium wrote:(snip) Had he known, then surely DWE would have had something about it in an Engine Torque.

Issue 424 July 2009, as you said.

maryalice wrote:Badge engineering !!!!!!!!!!!

Listerian enough to be allocated a production line number though!

And an advert, though it may just have been a 'testing the water' one....!
E

Copy of Article please young man.

Maryalice

I think back-issues are available from Kelsey. (˘ ɜ˘) ♬♪♫

Ignore me, brain fart.

nickh wrote:

cranium wrote:(snip) Had he known, then surely DWE would have had something about it in an Engine Torque.

Issue 424 July 2009, as you said.

I have that magazine in the back issues I bought on ebay, I'm happy to pass it on to StuartTurnerSteve if it's of interest.