First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Hello folks,

Officially starting the first few wobbles and steps in old engines of a different kind.

Before this I have restored some boat engines including the boats and some mopeds and more stuff like that in their mounts and machines.

It is a first for me to get into the engines all by them selves and I find it very satisfying already. I do not need a crane to lift a 39 ton boat or a garage to store the antique car, or a hangar to keep the eggbeater in. I can just have the engine alone.

I am having fun already by having my first victim safely picked up and sitting in the back of my pickup truck at work, waiting for me to come home and begging for a place by the woodstove in the house (no problem, I live alone and I have a separate spot in the house where I can do the magic.)

Down to business,

I bought this Lister because I had been looking for a diesel model for quite a while and also some hit and miss items to start this brand new hobby with. Well... the diesel never materialized as I wanted a complete engine in any shape, but they were either made of gold and expensive or so far gone that I would get cold feet before I would have a running engine.

Then it happened... an advert with two engines one a lister D and the other a lawson hit and miss, both for a price that will never re-occur again.
I went to pick up the lister as the other one was sold when I called the owner, so I went and picked it up in a 12 hour trip out and back.

I am a happy camper!

The D is in nice shape but needs some close attention and some work done, and paint would help too, but it should run regardless of those things.

It will need an original fuel tank, and a few broken studs removed from the top of the hopper to hold the lid or cap on, It is a one piece cover by the way, and a Ricardo hopper.
In general, besides a face lift and some small items replaced, it should work and run, as it did 4 or 5 years ago, when the previous owner parked it.

Perfect for my first attempt at getting one running and looking good.

Brass or copper tube, piping and replacing of the mag wire to the plug and general paint removing and re-doing and of course, the pin striping for looks and not least, decals and or transfers (the difference in Canuck and Brit pronounciation.) seems all it will need, and I'll know better when it runs.

The engine; Serial# 81738, 11D2, with a ML magneto which is shaft driven. The letters (which I have not seen yet) FTC are on the engine somewhere, the owner claimed, but I have not had time to find the location of those letters.

From scouring the web, I know that I have a 1927 D model Lister 2 hp, 1000rpm governed petrol/gasoline engine.

I never thought that I would end up lucky enough to fetch an old girl like that, my first thought was that I had a mid-fifties unit, but am pleased and tickled pink that I have an example not even a year older than the start of production date for the "D"

So here I am lucky, well fed, and ready for bed.

Any other info or conversation on my find, is welcome, and I am sure I'll be back soon for more info.

Regards, John.

Well done on finding such an early Lister D John, and best of luck restoring it. I have a couple of Lister D engines, but they aren't as old as yours. I bought a couple of good books about this engine from 'Stationary Engine Books' http://www.stationaryenginebooks.co.uk/lister.htm The books are 'The Lister D Story' and 'Lister D Restoration'. The restoration book covers the restoration of a later model engine than yours, but it might still be useful to you? The Lister D Story covers the history and development of the engine, and should be of interest to you as you have such an early engine.

As I've mentioned in another post on this forum, Stationary Engine Books is run by a man called David Edgington who's written a number of books on stationary engines, he also has the old factory records for Lister engines, so if you send him the spec number and engine number for your engine (which should be on a brass plate on the crankcase door) he should be able to tell you the exact date it was made and who it was first supplied to. I hope this info is useful to you.

Sounds like you've landed on your feet with your purchase John, the early Lister D's commonly known as shafties are a bit rare in this country so to get one where you live has to be a near miracle.

Good luck with the restoration and hope to see some pics soon and keep us up to date on how your getting on.

http://www.stationaryengineforum.net/t2492-step-by-step-photo-upload

Stu.

I have to wait to reply for another 5 days as per forum rules.

I just frustrated myself for the second time spending time composing a reply and then not be able to send it.

No worries, I will just wait and beat the rule that way and be victorious a little later in life.

Thank you guys for your kind words and replies,

John.

projecthog wrote:I have to wait to reply for another 5 days as per forum rules.

I just frustrated myself for the second time spending time composing a reply and then not be able to send it.

No worries, I will just wait and beat the rule that way and be victorious a little later in life.

Thank you guys for your kind words and replies,

John.

Hi and welcome,
great find out there, is it replies your having issues with or the initial 7 day rule for links/pics?

Andy

Hi Andy,

It is the 7 day rule that bothers me, whether it is links/pics, I am not sure of but when I use the "quote" it stops me dead in the water, so I will just wait.

I also need to get a better feel for the way the layout is set up, although it is similar to most of the sites I visit, this one is slightly different, but fear not, familiarity comes with stumbling and mistakes, so it shouldn't take me long

Regards John.

John, you could use a site like photo bucket (free to open account) myself and a few others find it the easiest way to put up pics. Check out the link for both ways to post your pics.

http://www.stationaryengineforum.net/t2492-step-by-step-photo-upload

https://beta.photobucket.com/

Stu.

Thanks for the reply Stu,

Yes, I have a photo bucket acct, I have not used it for a bit, but I'll play with that too when I get the chance.

I will most likely only have one day off, and that being today, I already am halfway through it lol.

Life is busy for me, but who's complaining?

I am enormously pleased with this site and its people, so that part is taken care of.

I have ordered three books written by Mr.Edgington and hope to have them soon, so I can do a bit of research and see what's up with the design and its particulars.
It surely will help with deciding what angle of attack to set up to try and get things done right.

Next will be to contact him and get some dates that corellate to the serial numbers and so on.

I will take pics of my proceedings of course, but please be patient with me, as I am rusty and need to get more proficient with the postings of them in this forum.

Another thing to do is to find a way to get my avatar up and change the name to John if that is possible

Time is the thing I have little of, but I'll get it done sooner or later.

Regards,
John.

Well I see you've managed to post some pics of your engine, we are very sorry about the 7 day rule but it's nothing the admin can do about it. It's set up by the forum provider and it effects some members more then others. 7 days is not to long to wait and now you've posted some pics your getting there.
Good luck with your restoration and I see your already getting answers for some of the questions that are concerning you.

Stu.

Thanks Stu,

It was probably more that I had to get used to the site than the wait for the trial period lol.

I manage fine with it and have no problem, even the loading of the pics went just spiffy, I am happy.

Above all, I have that nice belonging feeling that seems somewhat elusive in other sites, now... that may be a thing perceived just by me and is maybe related to the location of most of you, but still, I've come home I think, Thank you all.

Regards, John.

I have just bought an early D, number 82472, it was built on 11/10/1927. Obviously its a shaftie but also a low tank model.

Good luck with the restoration.

Hello Ruby T,

When you said that yours had a low mount fuel tank, I realised that mine is the same.
I'm happy to have you point me to that, Thanks.

John.

This is my D in the back of the Disco. It's got the wrong mag but runs really well.

Right,

So since this is the resto/rebuild page, I'm happy to tell you that I now have the mag live, it took a bit of doing as it was pretty sad.

It produces a nice hot big beautiful spark, and the lead is gone a bit further then I like, as it bit me through the insulating jacket a few times, and definitely woke me up to reality.

With fuel and oil and the like about, it is just not safe to have a sparkler for an HT lead wire.
So I should do to come up with a reasonable substitute hoping to keep the nostalgic looks.

The Mag works fine now, and I only had to rebuild the arm that holds the top half of the points, I destroyed an old set of auto points to get the two halfs that are hardened and that worked out well, the commutator brass just needed a scrape with a piece of fine #300 paper to clean up and there were a few more minute things that only bother a Dutchman, and they were done also.

It is the coverjacket on the horseshoe itself that is totally eaten away with electrolysis and corrosion.
I'll attempt to look for just a replacement jacket (the part that has the "ML" emblem embossed on it.) and it would make my day to be able to find that, as the mag itself is in better than fair condition physically and mechanically, and only has the start of one minute crack in one of the bottom mounting holes on the body.
It is surprisingly clean of nics dents and scratches so I will keep it rather than spending 120 - 170 pounds on a replacement.
Also the cap is cracked in two places, and could do with a replacement.
I'll be on the lookout for one of those too.

By the way, for small stuff like that the royal mail and Canadian mail systems are in cahoots together to have an easy way to ship things, just in case some or one of you may have a part or two that I would gladly take for a fee.
Shipping by mail is fine to this side of the creek.

Anyway..., other than cleaning the rest of the mag and applying a bit of paint where it needs it, I have a good spark supply.

That will be it for todays work on the engine, as I have to be gone on another trip to the west by tonight and I need to relax for a bit, so I am able to take on the forces of winter, in an all night drive in inclement and cooooooold weather @ -18*C.

cheers, John.

Hi Tony,

I see that tank mount, it is the same as on mine, all I need now is an original tank and make up the piping for that to be simi-complete.

I see that yours has the grease squeezer for the cam assy. I believe it is called a "Stauffer pot"

I went and checked for one to go on mine and of course the holes are threaded so I can just buy a grease pot and install it.
I wonder what the opposite side has that fits in the hole there on the carby's side, it is open also, and of course I have no idea as to what is supoposed to be in there if anything.

When it comes apart to do the crank bearings, I'll also do the once over for all the other parts, so I have somewhat of an idea as to what shape everything is really in.

I think I will mount the tank back on it and practise doing some timing, and maybe have it do a run or two, so I can say that it works.

Thanks for the pics,
Regards, John.

Tony, it appears that your D has had a fresh crankcase at some time due to the position of the oil filler, I guess the original bore wore out and it recieved a replacement which I guess was common as all the owner wanted was the engine back in action!

John, the rocker shaft may not be open on the opposite end as it may have a blanking piece about an inch inside the tube? Some however were open right through and you just hold a finger over the end when screwing the greaser in!

Pete.

Pete,

Good show, I needed that info, as that part is next to tackle.

In the mean time, I had a go at the studs and was lucky to get them all out in good form, excepting of course the last one which is always the hardest.

After finishing with the jackhammer and dynamite, it eventually was drilled and eased out with a hardened fine point pick and then re tapped as I did the other ones.
To my surprise none of the holes were damaged and now I have to machine up six new studs, which I can do when I get back from the trip that has not happened yet.
I may get another day at home, in which case I'll be in it with both hands and feet tonight to get a reaction when I turn the crank!

Any timing tips would do well, as I can only time by looking for TDC and guessing about 8-12 degrees advance, that should get a response.
I also still have to clean out the crank case and refill with 30 SAE for a tryout.
and of course have a look in there for any stray animals, or parts with serial numbers on them.

If any one has suggestions as to timing, I would listen and use what I can, in case of the oil, I am in Canada, so the use of 30 wt single grade should suffice.

Also......, My model does not have the covered oil lip (duck bill I call it lol) but instead just a pipe plug.
Checking I suppose has to be done with the oil dripping out as a correct level, but I will learn that too sooner or later.

Some pics next,

Cheers, John.

Here is a few pics showing the last but not least stud hole to be done.



And here is the finished undamaged result, yey!




There we are, I am fortunate to be able to have this engine, it suits me working on, and I finally have my start in old stationary engines, That's worth a beer!

Cheers, John

Oh,

I forgot to say that I did clean up around the breather hole a bit and found the three mounting holes for the dome, so That would mean that I did not have the cover which used a rubber insert.

Now to look for a breather.

John.

Ah I see that your oil filler is missing, it should be similar to the later ones but screws in of course! I would use your sae 30 and fill it level with that plug, then I would remove the crankcase door and check that the oil dipper on the conrod is going into the oil ok. The early dippers dont go in as far as the later type but obviously it needs to be in far enough to chuck oil around. The actual amount is 2 pints and if you pour it slowly into the valve side of the head it will fill the camshaft chamber on its way down.

Regarding timing, there should be two marks on the flywheel. A TDC mark which should be at the top when the flywheel key is at the bottom (6 oclock position) and a Z mark which is about an inch or so to the right of it, they may be buried in paint of course. Anyway, if they are missing, set the crank to TDC (keyway at bottom) and make a mark at the top on both the flywheel and crankcase, then measure about 1 to 11/2 inches to the right on the flywheel and make another mark. Turn the engine until the second mark aligns with the mark on the crankcase and the points should just be opening. That wont be too far out for starting.

Pete.

Right...,

I was just told that part of my load to go with tonight was on another trailer, and it had a slight mishap in the snow and ice, so I am home one more night, and then off to the races.

Suits me fine, now I can do some more hammering and bending on the "D".

I guess I will also have a look at the for sale ads here to see whats available in smallfry for me and maybe I can get away with a few items,

Cheers, John.

Hi Pete
Thanks for the info about the crankcase, I'm just going to use the engine to drive the compressor to provide air to start the 120HP Marshall semi diesel that I am putting back together. It runs really well so I'm not touching it!

Pete, Thank you for the reply,

I wondered if the other oil filler (the one that's not present on mine) was a screw in type or if it came press fitted.
Makes more sense to have it screw in me thinks.
Lol, yet another item to buy when I see it.

The timing marks would be there i am sure, but you are right to assume that there is a few inches of paint and covered rust on that.

I will clean that wheel off, when I get some more time off in a week or so.
timing is no biggie, it is pretty straight forward and I am sure I will find my way, but I do appreciate your comments and will most likely eat hat before it runs lol.

I am having a great time with this engine, and it should be that.
I enjoy old technology, and have had a hand in some of it in the aircraft industry rebuilding old engines and old aeroplanes.

This however is a much better situation, as I can work out of my special spot in the house and never have to leave the farm!

I am somewhat of a hillbilly, when it comes to living right, and my house is really an older log cabin situated on the river at the lake's outlet
and tus leaves me in total peace and quiet, and a few good neighbours, who also play with old auto's and the like, perfect for me.

I hope to get somewhere with the oil cleaning chores and the timing by later tonight, but who's in a panic?

Regards, John.

Ok, I'm back to my own thread, and still feel totally overrun by my neglect to notice the switch I made to use Biomed's thread as my own, and again I apologise to Biomed for this inexcusable error.

But..., I have to carry on with it, and I'll figure out what to do with all of this with help from the forum guru's here I hope lol.
I may change my name to "EngineZomby" yet! and I'm off the beer!
You all best keep your pets, women and wallets on a chain and properly tagged as yours, lest I take them over as well


I just took a few more pics of the cleaned combustion chamber and valves, the intake valve has quite some corrosion on it but may pass as ok to run with after some elbow and grinding, we'll see.




Intake valve corrosion.



The pitting is deep enough here, and right on the seal face it is a matter of grinding and finding out if it can be used again.
I am not worried about it too much as the engine is not a high performance affair, and will probably run fine just the same.
A valve can be turned up on a lathe but that's going overboard as replacements are available through Stationairy Engine.



Looks bad doesn't it? It may still work after a good grind though. The exhaust valve is clean but the face has some curvature to it that can be hand ground out.
On it goes, but do I realise that I have an easy engine here and not one that needs as much work and effort as some of you have done.

Thanks for watching and Regards all, John.

Well, after some work trying to separate the flywheel from the main bearing assembly I could not get it to budge at all, and then my machinist Mate called and asked how I was getting on with it, I told him I was not!
Just then he was done and between jobs and the press was available, so he said to come right then and press the shaft out.
Off I go.

We were working on a 100 ton press to get my feeble little Lister parts separated lol , It was a Kodak moment!
Once the pressure built to squeeze the shaft out there was a "tick" sound and the thing started moving.
I realised right about then that the press was powerful enough to squash my parts without even working up a sweat!
It all came out wonderfully quick and was done in just a couple of minutes.

So then we took a penny and put it on and squashed that to make my point of the power available, and it came out about 1-1/8th" round from 3/4", That was fun

He said that from his experience this shaft was on there good!
It makes me wonder why a Gib key is used if the wheel was on there so hard.
The only answer I can think of is that the Gib key is easier to grab on to for removal.
I would never have gotten it off with my home tools I think.

All in all I had a good day and will get back at it later and show a few more pics.

Things are looking up

Cheers all, John.