august 1929 RICARDO SHAFTY LISTER D spec D11

Im under way restoring a early d with original exhurst and a suction carb,  pre amal floated ones
it has the wrong mag but will see if he wants a closer to original hovis mag ,as ml mags are searious wonga
had it running after a few hours faffing and it supposed to have a knock ,but to my ears i cant  hear one
ive changed the oil and for pre dismantling flush out had to remove and repair the mag to get a spark
but im not anyway a lister d man but heres a video after me and jules "LISTER A " reset the tappets to the correct settings not the type error ones that i did them to "see its aways good to ask someone who knows more about the engine than the manual i bought   
so tappets were even quiter for this video
Anyway, hope it's useful.  





https://s1086.photobucket.com/user/a-lister1/media/MOV_0481_zps785c9469.mp4.html
were could the knock be hiding ,the best answer i was thinking was carbon hotspoting or oil burn for the heavy breathing it does
and the carb since unblocked the pipe system seams to be a little to rich to me and jules
under heavy load it just had a travelling noise but not a knock more of a tinny sound to it ???

well had the studs soaking for a few days so yesterday & today were the day when i was warmed up again
oil dropped ,tank drained and then off came the head and all other top end parts ,as the head was the first place i wanted to look at for the gremlin and sure enough carbon deposits and plenty of oil up the ,bore was polished like a mirror and the piston rings dont seam to be doing there job very well at all no ring restistance when rotated and slopy piston in the bore
cant feel any play when at tdc or bdc in the big endbush or little end ,but bigend will go side to side on the crank shaft upto the c clip and the web end 3mm each way
heres some pics all head pics didnt save to memory card   and ive already started to strip the paint studs gaskets rust ect ect


blocked gallorys and is that a low compression piston from a dk as my d as the sloped sides and flat top no hollowed middle like this one ??

remains of the head stud washers

rods and rockers saved in order

I think those photos are probably tricking you, and you'll find the piston has a raised crown rather than it being a hollow when you have a look at it in 'real life'?

Standard D type piston there, DK ones are flat topped.

Pete.

kev the piston has not got a recess its got a crown that sticks up , go jave another look, flat pistons are what a dk had , what uou are discribing is a 2 stroke piston .

Matt

How do you think it sounds Pete?    I know you have a Shafty D so you should know!?  https://s1086.photobucket.com/user/a-lister1/media/MOV_0481_zps785c9469.mp4.html

A Lister wrote:I think those photos are probably tricking you, and you'll find the piston has a raised crown rather than it being a hollow when you have a look at it in 'real life'?

jules think i should not post things when just woke up mate lol
the piston is raised what ever i was thinking at the time     think i was mixing it up with the depth of the valves in the head lol
never seen as deep a head as this on a stationary from my memory   
see you tomorrow afternoon mate
kev

Foden wrote:Standard D type piston there, DK ones are flat topped.

Pete.

pete
sorry mate my brain was off line at time of posting mate
how did it sound to you in video ???
kev

matt86 wrote:kev the piston has not got a recess its got a crown that sticks up , go jave another look, flat pistons are what a dk had , what uou are discribing is a 2 stroke piston .

Matt

matty
think i should of stopped of the computer when babys got me up last night mate
must of been dreaming or is it knightmares of 2 strokes again   
kev

I think that it might be too far advanced Kev, on the video I cannot see an airvalve on the carb either? Otherwise it seemed OK. Just make sure that the oil dipper is actually flicking oil up, those early short ones only just touch the oil, the later engines had longer dip rods plus a splash guard to prevent over oiling of the bore.

Pete.

The early air valve stem was very short Pete, they extended it a bit later so you could put a finger on it to hold it down to aid cold starting.  So that's right for this date of engine.  I'm not an expert on early D engines, but each time I look something up that's on this engine in David Edgington's D History book, it fits with being original spec.  

Apart from the magneto, this seems (to me, so far) to be a nice original low-tank engine.  If it were mine I might think about saving up for an ML magneto... but then again, the replacement magneto it's fitted with is part of the engine's history... so what do you do?  In this case, perhaps nothing and keep it as it is, if the mag works OK.  

Don't worry Kev, it takes me at least half an hour to wake up enough to get out of the bedroom, let alone fire up a computer and post something on a forum!     The deep recess in the head where the valves are is a feature of the Riccardo head, so once again it's right for an original early D engine.   

I know that the early air valve's are shorter Jules, it was just that I couldn't see one moving at all in the video. Presumably it has one as they run rough without them.

Pete.

Yes, there was an air valve it's just not visible on the video... it was filmed with my mobile phone late Sunday afternoon just before it rained, due to poor light it's not the best video footage I've ever produced!         Sorry for any confusion Pete.   

A Lister wrote:Yes, there was an air valve it's just not visible on the video... it was filmed with my mobile phone late Sunday afternoon just before it rained, due to poor light it's not the best video footage I've ever produced!         Sorry for any confusion Pete.   

Oh right Jules, and I was blaming Kev!!! Maybe the cast silencer makes it sound different, neither of my early D's have them alas.

Pete.

Foden wrote:

A Lister wrote:Yes, there was an air valve it's just not visible on the video... it was filmed with my mobile phone late Sunday afternoon just before it rained, due to poor light it's not the best video footage I've ever produced!         Sorry for any confusion Pete.   

Oh right Jules, and I was blaming Kev!!!    Maybe the cast silencer makes it sound different, neither of my early D's have them alas.

Pete.

thanks pete
for the good pointers as you dont say much but when you do it always helps mate
???????????? can i fit the later longer dipper to this old girl ,it has a splitpin holding this one on to bigend ??????/
me and jules also were thinking that the timing maybe a little out ,but i  more interested in getting the knock to show up at the time ,but had the mag off as not sparking and maybe tweeked it off were it was when removed ,
i think the screw fuel valve is not right as either over fueling still on the stop position ,and when screw removed and turned over to new lower ground  just wont run at all so think its been broken or from a lister A-B ect as just wont do its job, but will have a look and see when i get it a bit further along its way back together again, or if somone has a measurement from tip to top or inside dial would be a great help as this manbe the issue as screw maybe no longer in the right place for getting stop normal and starting   
but it maybe just oil burning and making it seam to be over fueled

A Lister wrote:Yes, there was an air valve it's just not visible on the video... it was filmed with my mobile phone late Sunday afternoon just before it rained, due to poor light it's not the best video footage I've ever produced!         Sorry for any confusion Pete.   

pete
jules is beginning to half a job on most things lately     
and yes the weather was freezing and turning for a big peeing down ,we just got packed away intime for the storm to commence
and were i work from its seams inposable to get a good video or photo , but a workshop is in the pipe lines   so fingers crossed
pics and products will inprove in quality

jules see you later capitan kodak
kev

Kev, I think that you CAN fit the longer oil dipper as the thread should be in the conrod, however they reckon it then throws too much oil up and causes smoke and plug fouling which is why the later engine's have the splash plate in the crankcase. The short rod's are fine, you just have to make sure the oil level is kept full. After all, it has been around for 80+ years so it hasn't hurt it any!  

Pete.

This model has the shorter air valve stem, which is why it is not clear in the video. The longer air valve stem came in at spec 12.

spit-bang wrote:This model has the shorter air valve stem, which is why it is not clear in the video. The longer air valve stem came in at spec 12.

Yes, I mentioned the short air valve in post Number 11 on Page 1; apparently, one of the advantages of the longer air valve was that it could be held down to aid cold starting.  I must admit, I've never had to hold the air valve down to start my 1940 D... but I suppose I've never tried to start this engine when it's been -6 degrees outside, like it would probably have been at times during it's working life!  

haha, yes you are right there! It sometimes slips my mind that these engines had to work for a living in ANY conditions.

valves lapped and reseated again and a total decoke

showing the missing casting through 80+ yrs of water cooling



casting all cleaned up ready for building back up ,but to also look unrepaired just used not rooted away again






all parts with the high zinc oxide primmer coats on

you can see the head all streightened back up and all parts in first of the top coats





castings done to leave a smaller amount of pitting visable

and all loose stick together to allow few more days hardening off before flattening of for the next of the topcoats
end of crankshaft left as is until flywheel refixed in place
kev

craking on with it, your moving away from the villieers!!

Lewis MacRae wrote:craking on with it, your moving away from the villieers!!

not as such lewis
just ive restored owned or still own about all the villiers models there was to own 2 4 stroke gas petrol diesel ect ect ,i do have a 250cc and gearbox from a bike lurking at my parents allong with a very early all cast iron and cast alloy  villiers powered lawn mower  
and i do that many for other people these days ,so ive always had a mixture of british engines in my collection and of course the american ones are starting to collect in numbers slowly too
so why get bored of one brand when theres plenty others to have a play with too    
kev

its coming along niceley kev. looks better than when it left here  . any luck with the piston yet?