Lister D tear down & rebuild

Hello all

I have begun the process of dismantling my lister D.
It was purchased as running however in desperate need of a good clean inside and out.

So far only a few components need replacing.
Rocker arm shaft plug
Valve caps.
Mag chain
Full gasket set

I will begin the rebuild by cleaning the bottom end and fitting the the piston, rod, bearings and crank in to the block.
Once done I'll be assembling the head after cutting a new exhaust valve seat. ( it's quite pitted )
With those two out of the way I will have the bench space to work on the mag and governor and carburettor.

Finally, with very little of the old paint surviving I might dress the engine in some Sunday finary.

Here's some pictures of the progress.

A rough calculation tells me your engine was manufactured on 02-08-1938.
If you send a polite email to Doreen Edgington ddlwf123@aol.com asking for a date of manufacture and who it was supplied to she will look at the day books for Lister and send you the details.

Maryalice

Hello Maryalice.
Thank you for doing the legwork on checking the dates for me, having the day books checked would be very interesting, I'll put an email together soon, thank you.

I have spent much time fastidiously cleaning the crank bearings to eventually sit then in an ultrasonic cleaner for many hours, they have come up very well and are still in great condition, the witnesses marks at 12 o'clock are interesting.

The rod, gudgeon pin, piston rings pin sleeves, and big end are all also good to go against, the only signs off wear are on the big end babbit, unfortunately when the engine was starting by the previous owner to show me it was a runner and how to start / stop it it had insufficient oil,  the dipper wasn't touching the dried up puddle of muck in the sump, luckily it only ran for a short burst with the govener frozen at WOT !  ... it sure went well beyond its 1000 rpm rating.
The babbit had just begun to pick up in one small area where the pressure is applied on power stroke, careful scraping removed the high spots and smeared flakes, I'd bet the bearing was mint before that, I'm satisfied that the bearing is perfectly fine to run again. As a side note, it's unfortunate that nobody is making babbit bearings for these motors ( not that I can find), I guess the phosphor bronze ones are good enough though.

I'm almost ready to assemble the bottom end, just waiting on a gasket set which may take a couple of weeks to arrive.
I was surprised to see no seals of any kind on the crank cover other than a liberal winding of dried grass, wool, string, twigs and dirt and oil, was there originally anything keep the muck out of the outer bearing like rope or felt ?

On one occasion at the Great Dorset Steam Fair a Lister D I was running started to scream so I stopped the engine and had a look inside to find the dipper had fallen in the sump, the oil was full of bits of white metal so I cleaned the sump out, changed the oil and refitted the dipper, the engine ran for three more days with no issues or noises, you wouldn't know the big end was knackered.
I run a couple of D's with the Bronze bearing without problems.
There is no seal on the outer bearing, the oil spins into the cavity and runs back into the sump and it works well.
Cereal boxes make excellent gaskets with a light smear of grease on both sides, as an experiment I rebuilt a Lister A using a liquid gasket, the engine has never leaked.

Maryalice

I do have a roll of nice roll of gasket paper,  perhaps I might consider making some oil print gaskets to save some money.
The crank bearing carrier gasket was extremely thin, im guessing that it will ultimately dictate the depth of the crank journal into the block?

It will affect the assembly but I doubt it would make to much difference as long as its not to thick.

Maryalice

Thanks again Maryalice.

More progress....
Exhaust valve seat cut, honed, lapped and sealing well.
Valve caps surface ground and polished to save a few bob, they were pretty beat up, not sure what the factory surface roughness speck should be but I reckon they'll be fine now.

The valve springs are pitted from rust, I'd hate to have one fail so I'll replace those.

Carburettor has been stripped down, everything came apart, all cleaned and loosely reassembled, straight methylated spirits cleaned the varnish and gunk out very effectively and an hour on the ultrasonic cleaner had the fine gause in the strainer looking like new, ill polish that and make a replacement tap handle for it.
I'll pull the carburettor apart again for painting once iv decided what type of paint I'll be using in mid Brunswick green of course.

Next I'll be attacking the mag and governor, in just spending some time getting to know it before it comes apart, making notes of cam timing just to be sure it goes back together correctly the first time.

The fuel tank is soaking in a tub of mild caustic soda and dish liquid, the heavy varnish is breaking down well.

I've spotted something of interest, what are the two brass looking items.

Maryalice

Silly me its the fuel filter, these were usually found on Cement Mixers.

Another of my hobbies involves black powder and lead balls.
I was told when I bought my first antique muzzleloader that it was bad luck to polish the brass that had developed a deep patina.
I'm tempted to adopt the same approach here, I can polish this stuff easily in a few minutes but genuine patina takes many decades.

Hello all.
Any suggestions on how to pack a new wick into a oil cup, my oiler had a short length of cotton braid copper wire with the top end fluffed up,

Maybe use old fashioned cotton clothes line?

Can you buy pipe cleaners in Australia, they have a stiff wire inside which would help to thread into the tube.
Maryalice

I think I may have had success using some copper wire and builders string line.
I fed the string line over the wire, melted the ends, bent it to shape as to touch the bottom of the oil reservoir, go up, over and down the tube sticking out the bottom just enough to clear the govener weights.
I'm not sure how long the reservoir should last but it wicked it dry in 15 hours.

Great pictures mate , Wico - Pacy magneto (wipac ) , & "AMAL - BIRMINGHAM " , remember them ? many an old engine or bike been powered by one or more of their carbs .
If the babbit becomes a problem then for an example here in the old country there used to be a company not far from where I live who specialised in renovating vintage & commercial engines & parts , they have now packed up , much missed , but they were called " Coventry Boring & Metalling Ltd " , over the years they handled a few jobs for me expertly , If you can find someone like them in The Big Country then you stand a chance of getting them melted out , re- cast , then machined back to proper tolerances . This is very specialised , they had one man who knew how to do it , " Terry " , who I once met on a works visit . He only had part of one index finger on one hand . Memories of the blokes you,ve known & the skills they had , nostalgia . At this time Coventry could make anything , all been thatchered . progress ? draw your own conclusions . If you find this you,ll find it in an old backstreet place being ran by old blokes .

Hello littlengines01
There's a similar trend here in Australia, despite a population that's growing at an eye watering rate, countless small (some no so small) businesses are vanishing. It's a crying shame, now that we are capable of little more than exporting refined ore and importing junk from China by the shipping container full.
I do my best to support those who are left whenever I can.
There was a similar business to Coventry Boring & Metalling Ltd in Adelaide, they shut up shop 20 years ago after serving thr rail industry and whoever walked in through the door.
He could fix pretty much anything and was a master at building up shafts with his spray metal and machining parts back to exacting tolerances.
We live in the disposable age now where very little is fixed, the scrap industry must be thriving.

All thr parts are cleaned with the block being the last part done, its just come out of the caustic bath, been high pressure washed and dried, I have my paint and will begin assembly as soon as the gaskets are here.
Everything has come apart reasonable well and is all in serviceable condition with the exception of the valve springs.


Question....
Will I go to hell if I put the oil filler on this side?

Nice cleanup job mate , Yes , spray metalling , at C.B.&M. there was a young guy who sat on a stool at a specialised lathe just scooping stuff that looked like sand onto a mechanised welding arc running on the job in the chuck , the old engineer /P.R. man who showed us round said he was doing "submerged arc welding " on an irreplaceable crankshaft,s journals . Gone . & a then young guy like me who probably had a family to support .
High -grade Iron Ore , here on T.V. we have a " Mr up -& -at it " presenter who hitched a ride on the train that carries that lot out of the desert to port , I saw his programme , it,s all good fair P.R. so I hope he doesn,t mind me mentioning his name , Chris Tarrant . Big fair haired guy , good presenter . Huge long train that he said dragged HOW MANY ? thousand tonnes of it out of the desert in Australia & hopefully brought foreign trade revenue back .
Adelaide , I,ve never been to The Big Country ...YET ! but I picked up off the net the instructions on how to reset the 12 volt D.C. battery charging systems made by Joseph Lucas in Birmingham , England , in an online copy of an ancient book stamped " Hannan Bros . Adelaide . " So this knowledge went from about 40 miles from my home , across the world , was kept for decades in Australia , then put on the net & came back again , & I,ve used it times on the old tractors around here . This is the integrity of people keeping knowledge , & modern net technology enabling us all to communicate at fantastic speed right round the globe . Just an observation . Best Regards mate , hammer on , & happy spanners .

Painting, polishing and assembling whatever I can.

Oooh Shiny !!!
Nice job - crack on.

Nice work, very nice work.

on_one_wheel wrote:
Question....
Will I go to hell if I put the oil filler on this side?

No. They were designed (on later D types) to fit either side for the convenience of the operator.

Go to hell?? Only after you’ve been shot!!!

I was worried that the purists might get their undies in a twist because despite hours pouring through the internet looking at lister D engine images I'm yet to spot one with the oil filler on that side.
It was a pain to get to at and actually see the oil in the "normal" locations, perhaps that's why it was run dry for the demonstration when I bought it.
I'll definitely fit it to the carburettor / exhaust side.

Good news ... my gaskets have arrived !
I'll be busy this weekend, crank, piston and windage tray went in last night...... full steam ahead.