Villiers Midget only runs for a few seconds..

Hi Nutgone...looks like i will be pestering you with the next engine project as well ..
The bike was a ladies Robin Hood cycle so it has been chopped about a fair bit...the cross bar was not there...the rear frame has been re shaped..and the front forks are my own take on girder forks....the fuel tank was from E Bay but was originally from a three wheel auto cycle made in the Isle of man..i carn't think of the name of it now for the life of me ..
It's a shame it will never be road legal as would be classed as a moped ..but will have to try it out down the road at least once before it ends up in the back of the shed...(if it ever works)....

Going to post a pic in a bit as i think the engine running is solved....

I think the pulley is a screw on type...To back this up there is two flats on the back of the pulley where i believe you undo it with a spanner.....
https://i.servimg.com/u/f82/18/34/33/36/img_2012.jpg
Now for the engine fault....what is missing

Piston rings???

Or rather a piston ring.

If you can accurately measure the ring you'll get a replacement. But, I don't think this is to blame for the fault you were describing. But until it is rectified we won't know (no point trying to fix a suspected carb fault on an engine with a missing ring).

You might turn up a ring from somewhere anyway, I may even have one, but will need reasonably accurate measurements IE: bore size, ring thickness & ring depth into groove (or depth of groove in piston or both). Sometimes it's best to measure ring thickness & groove thickness to get an idea of what it should be.

If you haven't got a micrometer then a vernier gauge will have to do, but a standard vernier is more accurate than a digital one, although a digital one should do as long as the zero is set.

I keep inch fractions as decimals written up on the workshop wall (IE: 1/8 = 0.125 etc etc) (I wrote them in chalk on a panel I painted with blackboard paint) & I have a steel rule with conversions of all popular inch fractions into millimetres, I find these help a great deal when measuring rings, especially with a digital vernier, giving me inch decimals & a micrometer giving me millimetres!

Let me know what you come up with, especially the bore diameter, as you can fit 2 or more thinner rings into one groove if you have to (& I have a bit of a selection of different rings in the workshop, right down to 2" bore). Ideally though you must fill the groove, or it will be very noisy to say the least!

It's surprising what people do to keep an engine running but you expect that with engines used in agricultural use but you have (sort of) a road going vehicle, so why bodge the job up, also why was it removed, is there any bore markings (score marks) and is the piston groove ok? d have a good look and maybe renew the piston also. I'm sure that you should find one easy as a few members have Villiers spares.

Stu.

I will have a measure of all the parts Nutgone and post them on here...i have E Mailed a Villiers parts suppler and asked if he does rings for the engine..i had a reply telling me he does and what size do i need...I suppose i stupidly took it to be standard size but i suppose it might not be.....and there is No sign of any markings to the bore or the piston or around the ring groves...I suppose it was just robbed to make a good one out of two...Or did it ever have one in the first place I hope this could be the cause of the running as it must be down on some compression and could this cause it not to suck or blow correct??....all i can do now is replace the rings and build it back up checking and double checking along the way... https://i.servimg.com/u/f82/18/34/33/36/img_2013.jpg

Oh by the way...Thanks for your help as well Stu...the pic of the bore does not show to well how good it all is...
The engine by the way did not come with the bike...it was a E Bay find for £10.00 and on my door step
this was the start of Frankenstein's monster

You could try this company, ask for George as he's very helpful and knows his stuff.
Sorry for the confusion about the bike, it's old age on my behalf.

http://www.villiersparts.co.uk/

Stu.

Thanks for the link Stu...Funny enough this was the place i had E mailed for the rings and barrel gasket...they replied on Thursday and said they do rings for the engine but wanted sizes...i have measured the barrel and piston and will get this back to him...But no price as of yet but it looks positive so far....fingers crossed....

Great news you might be getting the rings not sure on there cost, at a guess £30 please let me know if I'm anywhere close as I think the price will be higher.

Stu.

Don't buy them if they are. I can probably get them for a lot less. Get a price, have a measure up, I might even have a set that'll fit, but you'll need to file in the peg slots in the ends. (it's not a performance engine after all, you can get away with huge ring gaps on 2 strokes, especially old ones like this).

It all depends on size really, & your budget, & how pedantic you are about these things (being pedantic is not a bad thing, some people could do with being a little more so sometimes ).

I am in the process of ordering an assortment of rings, for various projects, from a supplier I've never used before. They are cheap, but postage rates are a little high (although very good considering where they're coming from). When I get these rings I will be putting up a review in the "Suppliers" section, weather I get good or bad service (so far communications have been very promising though).

£30.00 ....
Do you think that much Stu....i am Not tight...(well might be )
But £30 for two small ring's seems a lot...
I will E Mail them tonight and see what the reply is...Although i did laugh the other day when i measured the piston and bore and the piston was bigger than the bore (must have been a long day)...but in the end i sorted it...
Thanks again Nutgone...if i don't get on very well i will let you know the size of it all and any help would be fantastic...I have been looking for a back up plan just in case and spotted some Villiers spares for sale so will keep a eye on them..

nutgone wrote:Don't buy them if they are. I can probably get them for a lot less. Get a price, have a measure up, I might even have a set that'll fit, but you'll need to file in the peg slots in the ends. (it's not a performance engine after all, you can get away with huge ring gaps on 2 strokes, especially old ones like this).

It all depends on size really, & your budget, & how pedantic you are about these things (being pedantic is not a bad thing, some people could do with being a little more so sometimes ).

I am in the process of ordering an assortment of rings, for various projects, from a supplier I've never used before. They are cheap, but postage rates are a little high (although very good considering where they're coming from). When I get these rings I will be putting up a review in the "Suppliers" section, weather I get good or bad service (so far communications have been very promising though).

Nuts have you also took into account the import duty and I think VAT is also added, so fingers crossed they slip through customs un-noticed.

Stu.

At such a cheap price that would probably be negligible. I've heard from quite a few people who use this guy & they work out a lot cheaper than places like Cox & Turner.

Should find out soon enough. I will report back weather I have a good, bad or indifferent experience, in the suppliers section.

well good news i have paid and ordered the piston rings for the Villiers from George at Villiersparts
the rings were £17.70 and £3.90 postage...
but had no luck with a new gasket for the bottom of the barrel.
It is not split but just look's a bit old
a bit of gasket glue should do the job on the re-build....

Gasket paper is cheap enough, I've got loads. Get the stuff called flexoid, from an eBay seller called TYM gaskets & seals. It's by far the best quality.

0.5mm paper is a good all-rounder, but a bit thick for some jobs. They sell a mixed pack, A4 sheets in 5 different thicknesses. the really thick one (1.5mm) is good for stuff like petrol caps, the really thin stuff (0.15mm) is good for stuff like crank case joints.

Useful stuff to have about, & not expensive. But worth paying for the good stuff (Flexoid).

Be careful with instant gasket & jointing compounds, just a smear is usually enough. They are all good at what they do, but the most common mistake is using too much. I keep a large selection of those in as well.

But a simple card gasket made from a cheap cereal box would probably do for this, with a bit of grease on it. (Grease is actually a good sealer but isn't used as such very often these days).

I do have some gasket paper kicking around and may well make up a new gasket just for some thing to do

It's very therapeutic you know, gasket cutting.

I invested in some hollow punches, but holes can be cut with a small sharp blade.

My workbench is pretty dirty, so I usually keep old cereal boxes, cut one open, old it in half (inside-out) & use that as a clean cutting board to work on. They are also useful for doing jobs like stripping down carbs, where things need to be kept clean.

No piston ring's in the post as of yet... :-(

Good news the rings turned up in the post today....:D:D

Great stuff. 

When are you planning to fit the rings? Just wondering how your getting on.

Stu.

stationary stu wrote:When are you planning to fit the rings? Just wondering how your getting on.

Stu.

I was wondering how this one was coming on as well.

HI all...
Not had much time for the Villiers this week as been getting the car ready for mot time..I dont even know if the rings fit yet lol..
will get on with it soon as keen to know if it will run any better...  

Not another one with MOT time. I'm hoping to get mine done tomorrow, & get a tax on it ready for a rally next weekend.

Oh well, best of luck with it all. We'll be watching with interest at the Villiers project.

Hi all...
Well at last got round to making a start on the engine.
i made up a gasket and cleaned up the barrel.I then cleaned out the groves in the piston ready for the new rings.opened the packet with the new rings in and.. 
The piston rings are to BIG...
Now going to have to send them back with the old ring for a patten.
Oh well....