Lister in France

Good afternoon,
I spend most of my year here in England. The remainder I spend in rural Normandy, where over the past 13 years I have restored an ancient house and water mill.
There has been a water mill on the site for over 1000 years, but it finally gave up it's commercial purpose in 1963.
However it is now restored and has one of three grinding wheels operating, using the power source of the water wheel.
During the war the mill ran 24/7. It had to feed not only the residents of the area and their animals, but also the occupying German Army. During the occupation a new "oversized" wheel was added, but it require additional power to augment the water.
Now, to the point, and thank you for being patient. A twin cylinder CS Lister engine was fitted. It was apparently built in Germany under license, and fitted by the German military.
In 1963 it was torn from it's mountings and discarded in a corner of the mill. Water remaining in the engine must have frozen and the water jacket on both cylinders has cracked. Apart from this and that all hoses are US and filters and oil and total clean up are necessary, I see no reason why with the addition of fuel, and a Lister enthusiast, it would not once again start up.
If this was so, it would nearly complete the restoration and allow the large grinding wheel, together with all it's pulley powered accessories to function.
So, I need your help and advice. Is such damage to the water jackets repairable? The mill will never again, in my ownership, operate as a commercial mill, so running hours will be low.
Are hoses, filters and any other spares of which as yet I am unaware that I might need, available ?
But primarily, is there an expert either resident in Normandy, or who will to come to Normandy to restore the engine?
Money? Within reason, I will pay all costs. This is a restoration of only personal importance, and for no other reason, so it does not justify a massive expenditure.
Your advice, guidance and expert knowledge would be hugely appreciated.
I look forward to hearing from you,
Bob West.
Hampshire UK.

hi bob......

sounds like you have had some fun...

I'm sure there is someone on here that would be able to help you...

enjoy the forum...regards....mike...

Thanks Mike,
Fingers crossed.
It's a great forum.
Bob.

ya..we are all here to help members...if we can of course...

hope you enjoy it...

I'm being nosey....do you have a son called rob???

IM sorry if i got it wrong....

regards.....mike...

Hi Mike,
No. I have an adopted son named Ben. Two grandchildren via Ben and his wife. No other children.
Bob.

sorry bob..

I'm getting you mixed up with another fella,who lives in hampshire and deals in engines......

the name bob and your location made me think that it was him....

sorry for the mix up...must be my age

regards......mike....

Hi Bob,

You can repair the water jackets if the cracks are minimal, however, with the current influx of indian made spare parts you could actually replace the barrels completely, they are around £100-150 each, but that depends on dimensions, each barrel on your engine should be equivalent to a 6hp CS, if the germans have maintained the design dimensions of the original lister CS.

could you get me some pictures as i have a feeling the engine might be a JP2, which is different.

if you want to maintain originality, see a specialist cast iron welder and they will repair the barrels for a similar cost to buying two new ones, which may not be the same type.

Welcome to the forum, anything you want to know about the CS give me a shout.

cheers.

Paul

Thanks for the reply Paul. I will get pictures up on the site in the next couple of days.
I don't think the barrels are affected. It is the external (quite thin) casings which have failed.
I would like to retain the originality, if possible.
The engine looks to me a "Lister" in every detail, and I wonder if they were not assembled under license, rather than manufactured under license.
I will get as many pics as I can of the serial numbers and plates, as well as the damage ASAP.
Thanks for your interest.
Bob.
.

the barrel and outer part are one casting bob, its just a term of speech i use for clarity,

yeh if you could get some pictures that would be great.

cheers. Paul

Good morning again,
I need even more help !! Sorry about this.
It has taken me two days to upload two out of six pictures onto "Photo Bucket".
I have to stop at two and try to get them onto the site for you to see.
What do I do next.?
Alternatively, I will be happy to send them to you by e mail or print them off and post to you.
Clearly it cannot be beyond human ability as so many of you have pics on the site. But I can't do it.
Without being rude, do you have any suggestions?
Bob.

Hi Bob,

when you post a message on the forum, there is a list of icons you can choose from below the title bar, 26 in total in one straight line, the 15th symbol along, when you hove your mouse pointer over it says "host an image"

click on that, and a new window will pop up, titled servimg.com, giving an option to "upload your image", click on the "browse" box and your documents will pop up, find your pictures in there, select the one you want, and then click "host it", the picture will then be downloaded and three options come up, each being a different size picture, choose the middle one and copy the address and paste it into your forum message, you should end up with a picture like the one below.



hope that helps

Paul

https://servimg.com/images.php?cat_id=0
Good evening Paul,
Thanks for your guidance.
There are five pictures at the attached address. I still can't seem to get them on to the forum, but perhaps you can see them on my saved picture file.
Let's see what happens when I press send.
Fingers crossed, here goes.
Bob.

Hi Paul,
No, failed again.
Explain which address I need to paste into my message. Obviously not the one I have pasted.
Bob.

Spoke too soon !!. It does not appear on the forum, but the pictures can be accessed from the web site address.
Look forward to hearing from you, or anyone else with some good ideas.
Many thanks. What a marathon,
Bob.

hi BOB...

as paul said,when you host it it should take a little while to download,once its done i click the middle one,then it says allow,click allow then right click on it again,then click on to the reply page/post page and right click again and hay presto it should come with the details...
then repeat till you have finished,then i go to the bottom of the page and click on the preview to check thay have all loaded..
if its all OK click send and then your done...once you have done it a few times,it gets easier...
if your still having problems,PM me your land line and i will phone you and run through it with you....
hope this helps.....

regards......mike....

Hi All

i've created a new step by step image hosting procedure, follow it at the following link and you'll be fine

http://www.stationaryengineforum.net/notices-f6/step-by-step-photo-upload-t2492.htm

cheers.

Paul

Many thanks,
Were you able to access the pictures on the "servimg" web address I posted on my earlier e mail?
I will this evening do the whole thing again and try to get the pice on the forum.
Bob.

no bob, using a link like that sends you to the servmg website rather than any members photos, as you need to log in before viewing them. let me know how you get on, i've sent you a private message with my email address if you want to email me the pictures and i'll host them for you.

cheers..
Paul

Many thanks to you both,
I will try again this evening to get the pictures onto the forum site.
Meanwhile, however, are you able to access the pictures from the web site address I attached to my earlier e mail?
Bob.
Sorry to repeat myself. I had not realised that the earlier posting had successfully arrived at the forum site.
Bob.

Heres Bobs pictures as requested









Cheers.

Paul

Now having just looked at these pictures myself, i dont think the engine was made in germany, but rather Holland. the dutch have ties with the Lister Family and it wouldnt surprise me that they were liscence built in holland, which would make the "van der horst" name more fitting.

the barrels are shot though unfortunately, i havent seen any that bad be recovered, so i believe they will need to be replaced, unless anyone else has a more optimistic view than me?

Cheers.
Paul

ignore the last email, i've done some digging

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40775

a friend of mine, Peter forbes put this information up on there

Van der Horst were the patentees for a chroming process for engine cylinder bores. 'Listard' and 'Chromard' were two of the trade names, but as time went by it was found that improved liner and ring material, plus the use of alloy pistons, obviated the need for bore chroming and it died out in the 1950's or 60's.

cheers. Paul

Paul,
I am most grateful, and not a little embarrassed that I could not load the pics myself.
Thanks for the information. That the engine originated from Holland probably supports my information, in as much as Holland was occupied by the Germans at the same time, and a machine delivered from anywhere in occupied Europe in the war time period would have been assumed by the "locals" as being of German origin.
Bob.

[quote="Paul_sterling"]ignore the last email, I've done some digging

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40775

a friend of mine, Peter Forbes put this information up on there

Van Der Horst were the patentees for a chroming process for engine cylinder bores. 'Listard' and 'Chromard' were two of the trade names, but as time went by it was found that improved liner and ring material, plus the use of alloy pistons, obviated the need for bore chroming and it died out in the 1950's or 60's.

cheers. Paul...

HI PAUL....

thats the place to go to get someone to date the economy for me...

will have to give it a go....

thanks for jogging my memory.....

regards.....mike....

Dutch Listers were imported by Brinkmann and Niemeijer.
This company still exists in Holland.

http://www.bnmotoren.nl/nl/home/

These imported Listers had an extra copper plate on the engine with their name on it.
Hope this is of some help.