lister d piston stuck

hi guys.i recently purchased a siezed d and have managed to free the piston from the bore by knocking it downwards.the problem i now have is getting it back up the bore to remove it.it still feels quite tight and i cant achive any up ward movement.does anyone have any tips or old school way of getting it back up?


cheers mat

What I usually do in this situation is to get an old hacksaw blade and scrape as much of the crud from around the bore and then if you've got a honing tool give that a quick go with course stones give everything a good clean then using the weight of the flywheel simply rotate the engine over and the piston should now move to the top of the bore,James.

Sorry just read your post again you could give it a go what I mentioned earlier but leave the cylinder full of diesel or something overnight before trying to spin her over.

you may want to try and apply some heat around it ...

What i have done is get one of er pans from indoors and fill with some oil and get it on the boil so just starting to form a few bubbles and poor that into the bore , and leave it for a few days to do its job ,

Matt

cheers guys ill give it a go shortly.

mat

It's that old thing that always bother us... patients ... just take your time to get it out and then you shouldn't cause an un-necessary damage to the piston. You could give yourself a lot of work and take the crankshaft out and remove it that way.

Stu.

I'm presuming you can't turn the flywheel? Try cleaning the bore then put some warm paraffin in, leave over night then try turning the flywheel. If that fails get some heat from a blowtorch on the water jacket side of the bore as even as poss then try again

the cranks removed cause it wouldnt budge so i had to knock it(quite hard,several times and with a lump of wood on the piston top)downwards.it went a little too far and the crank wont go back in now,ive made a puller like the one in the restoration book ut its still not budging.had 6 hours on it today trying all sorts of things but it just stayed where it is. im open to all suggestions even if they seem daft.the only other option ive got is to cut the con rod and continue to knock it downwards but would rather not do that.

mat

davelister wrote:the cranks removed cause it wouldnt budge so i had to knock it(quite hard,several times and with a lump of wood on the piston top)downwards.it went a little too far and the crank wont go back in now,ive made a puller like the one in the restoration book ut its still not budging.had 6 hours on it today trying all sorts of things but it just stayed where it is. im open to all suggestions even if they seem daft.the only other option ive got is to cut the con rod and continue to knock it downwards but would rather not do that.

mat

have you got a photo of this puller? has it come down far enough for the oil ring to have popped out and stop it going back up?

its not gone as far as the ring,its only 3-4mm out the bottom of the bore and the rings about 10-15mm up.i did take a picture but i need my wife to come back and work her magic and get it in the computer.ill post a pick as soon as shes back.

mat

davelister wrote:its not gone as far as the ring,its only 3-4mm out the bottom of the bore and the rings about 10-15mm up.i did take a picture but i need my wife to come back and work her magic and get it in the computer.ill post a pick as soon as shes back.

mat

ok, not having seen the book, just interested as to how a puller would work from the top without destroying the piston crown.

she came back!!



basicly the bars on the bottom are one either side of the conrod with a plate on the top,on these plates are 2 spacers which are placed under the conrod fixing on the piston,then the 2 threaded bars either end are tightend a turn at a time,as the piston moves up and the bars are toutching the bottom of the bore the whole thing is slackend off and longet spacers are used until the piston is out.the problem in having is the piston isnt moving! ive got that much tention on the puller its acctually starting to bend the 5mm angle on the top.


mat

yeah, the angle isn't quite man enough, try drilling the holes closer to the corner so you just have enough room to get the socket on the nut, there will be less leverage on the angle face then. Failing that, or as well, bring the holes closer to the block top and bottom, again reducing leverage on the metal, making sure as much force as poss is going where you want it rather than into bending the puller setup. Do the above as well as putting some warm paraffin in the bore.

ill try that buddy.ive used this set up twice before and the pistons have just pushed up with it. this ones a pain in the arse!

I take it Lister D pistons have to come out the top then?

I never liked removing pistons from the top, as the wear groove is always much greater at the top of the bore.

I can only echo the call for heat.

Also, if you have any, try mixing a little ATF (automatic transmission fluid, any type AFAIK, I use AQF I think, but have also used EQ3 & DexronII) in with your easing oil solution, it's got very good penetrating & easing properties. Personally I never use straight paraffin or diesel, it's always a mixture of different things. My latest mix has petrol (which has probably mostly evaporated from the mix by now), white spirit, diesel, kerosene, 2 stroke, ATF & a little engine oil (I think that's about it). It moved the stuck pistons in my Kohler after just 24 hours, & they'd been in there 35 years, one with an open valve. I also use it for parts washing.

Personally I go for heat on the metal rather than the oil, but that's just because it's easier for me that way, as I don't have any old pans, but I do have a blow lamp.

Apparently a 50/50 mix of ATF & acetone is very good at penetrating & easing as well, but the acetone does evaporate off quite quickly.

Hope some of this helps.

yeh the piston has to come up as the conrods too long and hits the bottom of the engine before the pistons free,have spent the last 2 nights with a mix of 50/50 atf and petrol in the top of the bore with a slither of wood as a wick and lit it! apparently when the cylinder expands the atf seeps down and frees the piston,ive yet to see this result! an old school mechanic mate of my dads told me to try it as its an old trick for bike engines,lighting the mixture creates a gentle heat which reduces the chance of cast cracking.its a nice theory but doesnt seem to have worked. ill keep trying different things but cutting the conrod and knocking it out the bottom is looking more and more like the only option,if its not out by sunday then i can see the saw coming out!

cheers guys

mat

A very old school engine man I used to know had a similar method with water cooled engines (I saw him do it with an open crank Fairbanks Morse once). He puts petrol, or whatever, in the water jacket & sets fire to that, then pours oil into the barrel. The fire in the jacket heats the barrel, without heating the piston. Then the oil goes in & should get round the rings, freeing off the engine.

Could be worth a try.

I'm glad to hear someone else using ATF. I couldn't believe the difference it made to my home made easing oil. I wasn't expecting it to be any different, but it was.

Here's an idea don't laugh it might work. Could you get a hose onto your hot water tap then open the engine drain tap and let the hot water run through the water system see if that will expand it.

Stu.

Stu, you're not far off there. Many people think to heat something means holding a blow lamp on it until it glows red, but I have found that it really doesn't take that much heat to gently expand something enough to free it off. It all depends what it is really, but many of the things I've freed off in the past year have taken a surprisingly gentle heat to do so.

nice idea stu but id have to use the kettle and fill the jacket cause the engins in bits but its worth a shot.ill try anything even the daftest of ideas.


mat

Try boiling the kettle and a few pans, block of all the water exits then pour the water in, has to be worth a try.

Stu.

lads ive used one of them halogen bulb turbo fan ovens top part with all the heating bits in there and sat it on top off the barrel
see my villiers diesel d270 post on here theres a pic of oven at work , starting off at 100 and working my way up until it was freed easyly with a piston bore sized wooden block and a rubber/leather hammer to do the knocking with an pop goes the rings ,still dont forget the soaking in thin oils to aid the rust free before durring as it starts to run through before its starts to release the piston normally for me anyway lads
dont smack the piston crown with small block of wood or just a hammer as crown will give you a lovely shattered smashed in paterrn ask or see pic nutgone`s post about his kholer 4 cylinder when he got the head off ,

kev

heres the link to the stuck piston methods i used as above
http://www.stationaryengineforum.net/t5706p30-villiers-d270-aircooled-diesel-to-the-collection?highlight=villiers+d415

also i try this way first if i can do so
url=https://servimg.com/view/16392953/368][/url]
this is the first firing from the engine lol lol
the kj cocktail after 20hrs soaking ,now giving it the thermal treatment
when i get up tomorrow "it will be as free as a bird" or
at least in know i was wrong and its the other piston stuck
kev
kev

I like the way Kev uses the best family silverware as a heat shield. Talk about posh! The rest of us have to use some old bit of tin!

:stick lol: dont tell the wife :stick lol:
kev