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Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290

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Post by Dougal on Tue Jan 24 2017, 15:59

Here's my little Mk10.... I bought it as a £50 lot at a local auction which included a load of BSA motorcycle brake spares and drive chain - I sold the BSA stuff on E-Bay, meaning the engine was about £30 - not bad for a wee project. It's complete, apart from an exhaust silencer.

Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6216
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6214
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6215

Doesn't look as if there are any cracks/external damage.

The engine was seized when purchased so I removed the spark plug and squirted in some WD40; after soaking for a couple of days, the piston freed up.

Next I checked the spark - which was very strong (jolted myself), so the magneto and coil are good.

There is very little compression (by feel) so yesterday I took the valve cover off, which showed the exhaust valve is stuck open - squirted in more WD40, but haven't checked it yet. I think I'll just abandon the quick start attempt and get down to stripping/re-building....

As I'm new to stationary engines, I wanted to check a couple of things......

(a) the green pull chord - was that an aftermarket option (it does say Villiers on it)? Maybe someone fitted it from another engine......

(b) Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6218
What is the metal contact thingy that I've highlighted in this photo?

(c) Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6217
What is the function of this ball valve shown in this photo? It moves in and out as the crankshaft rotates.... Is it a crankcase breather?

(d) where's a good place to get an original exhaust silencer? I'd prefer an old one, even if it needs to be repaired.

Thanks!

D. cheers

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Post by Woodsman on Tue Jan 24 2017, 16:25

a) I think you're correct
b) Cut off switch - shorts LT side of coil to earth.
c) Correct again
d) more tricky. I used to get mine from http://www.lsengineers.co.uk/
but I can't find the pepper pot type today. They do very occasionally appear on fleabay

Good luck

EDIT If L&S can't help you could try here:

http://www.villiersparts.co.uk/exhausts.html

A bit more expensive, but beggars can't be choosers. Or keep an eye on fleabay - they come up now and again.

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Post by Dougal on Wed Feb 20 2019, 19:47

It's been a while since I posted, as I moved on to other things, but I've been doing bits and pieces on the Mk10 off and on..... I stripped it down. The lack of compression was down to a sticking exhaust valve and stuck oil control and top compression piston rings. Some photos of completed components (after stripping/cleaning/de-rusting/polishing/refurbishment) now follow.....

Air Filter Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2035
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2036

Carburetter (V-Type) Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2038
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2037
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2039

Manifold Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2040

Governor lever Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2028

Petcock (Ewarts, may need new cork) Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6414

Fuel tank cap Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6419

Fuel tank straps/fasteners Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6417
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Dscf6418

Sump Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2029

Conrod & Piston (minor wear on the shells and will need to buy new rings)
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2030
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2032
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2031


Last edited by Dougal on Wed Feb 20 2019, 22:00; edited 6 times in total

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Post by Dougal on Wed Feb 20 2019, 19:50

More photos soon...

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Post by Dougal on Wed Feb 20 2019, 22:10

Cylinder head and valves...

Before Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2049
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2050
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2048
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2051

After Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2045
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2047
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2046

The exhaust valve shows excessive pitting on the stem, where it has been stuck open..... I think both valves will be okay once re-ground into their respective seats.

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Post by Woodsman on Thu Feb 21 2019, 09:26

I think that's what's called 'polished to within an inch of it's life' - do you have shares in Brasso?  Very Happy Very Happy

Now you need something for it to drive. Keep up the good work.

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Post by Robotstar5 on Thu Feb 21 2019, 17:27

It looks too nice to hide the parts inside an engine, fix all the components to a display board? Very Happy

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Post by chiefy on Fri Feb 22 2019, 10:35

Hi Dougal,
Another Villiers i love em they are such a robust little engine i think they deserve a better following,good luck with the refurb.
Regards
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Post by Dougal on Wed Feb 27 2019, 14:51

I bought a used 'pepperpot' exhaust silencer via eBay - the stem is of the straight variety, rather than the bent original, and fouled against the carburetor when mounted; one of my son's mates machined a spacer out of aluminium and it fits nicely...... I'll have to get longer studs (or bolts), though (probably cut down some threaded rod).
As-purchased Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2052
Stripped and cleaned Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2054
Sprayed with high temperature enamel and baked (thanks to my son) - aluminium spacer shown (son's mate) Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2053

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Post by Dougal on Wed Feb 27 2019, 14:57

Flyscreen..... (to both faces).....

Before Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2058
Cleaned, de-rusted (vinegar then wire wheel) Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2059
Cleaned, primed, sprayed Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2060

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Post by Dougal on Wed Feb 27 2019, 15:03

Fan ring.....

Cleaned, wire brushed, polished Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2065
Other sideVilliers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2064

There are a number of markings stamped onto the ring (aside from 'Villiers Eng. Co. Ltd' and 'Made In England'):

Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2066
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2068
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2067

Can someone tell me what they represent (a date, perhaps...)?

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Post by Dougal on Wed Feb 27 2019, 15:08

Starter pulley components.....

Cleaned, wire brushed, polished Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2069
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2071

Yes, I did polish the aluminium spacer (!), as it was quick to do. After polishing, the components are coated with Turtle wax and buffed off.

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Post by Dougal on Wed Feb 27 2019, 15:12

Flywheel...... Cleaned, not polished (but am tempted to...!)

Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2072
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2073

There are no obvious date marks on the flywheel, only a timing/TDC arrow).

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Post by Woodsman on Thu Feb 28 2019, 10:09

Dougal wrote:
There are no obvious date marks on the flywheel, only a timing/TDC arrow).

Hi Dougal,
Judging from the type of valve cotters and other small details like the cut out switch and piston part no DM503 I'd guess you have a MK10/1 - so maybe late fifties early sixties? Oddly my manual shows it fitted only with a B10/1 carburetter and the con rod shows a different part number so perhaps you have a bit of a pick and mix.

Don't rely on the 'timing marks' - once you have removed the flywheel you need to re-time from scratch.

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Post by Dougal on Thu Feb 28 2019, 17:14

Woodsman wrote:
Dougal wrote:
There are no obvious date marks on the flywheel, only a timing/TDC arrow).

Hi Dougal,
Judging from the type of valve cotters and other small details like the cut out switch and piston part no DM503 I'd guess you have a MK10/1 - so maybe late fifties early sixties? Oddly my manual shows it fitted only with a B10/1 carburetter and the con rod shows a different part number so perhaps you have a bit of a pick and mix.

Don't rely on the 'timing marks' - once you have removed the flywheel you need to re-time from scratch.

Thanks, Woodman - I wonder where the conrod DM558 came from? It's not listed in the 1957 Mk 10/12 operations manual (that I think you sent me). That manual shows both the V-type and B10 carburetters. Is there another manual?

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Post by Woodsman on Fri Mar 01 2019, 17:20

Hi Dougal,
Yup, loads of different manuals depending on year and Mark/model.

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Post by Dougal on Sun Mar 03 2019, 08:19

I just might have to follow Stuart's suggestion about display pieces, as the availability of piston rings is in doubt..... Nothing at LS and George S hasn't replied to my emails.

I've found an aftermarket Caber set on eBay, from a seller in Athens..... Not sure of quality.




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Post by blue cat on Sun Mar 03 2019, 11:16

"I've found an aftermarket Caber set on eBay, from a seller in Athens."

You should really only source Caber sets from Edinburgh, the Athens of the North  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing



Tried these 2 sources of piston rings (and other parts) ??

----------------------------------------------------------

Cox & Turner ?

ian@coxandturner.co.uk

01935 826816

www.coxandturner.co.uk
-----------------------------------

Meetens (Villiers, JAP, BSA specialist) ?

pchild@meetens.co.uk

01772 691604

www.meetens.co.uk

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Post by Robotstar5 on Sun Mar 03 2019, 11:47

Have you tried an e-mail to Jonathon at the mower centre? I've always found him very helpful.

https://www.themowercentrehailsham.com/

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Post by Dougal on Sun Mar 03 2019, 19:33

Thanks..... I'll contact them....

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Post by Dougal on Mon Mar 11 2019, 18:33

Dougal wrote:Thanks..... I'll contact them....
Well, I ended up ordering the Caber piston rings from the dealer in Athens..... At £20 delivered, these were cheaper than both Meetens (£34 inclusive of delivery and VAT) and Turner & Cox (£42 inclusive of delivery and VAT). No response from George S. Awaiting delivery/fingers crossed.....

Been preparing the crankcase for re-painting...... Wire brushed and sanded the barrel fins, cleaned the inside (components) and outside with white spirit and acetone.

Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2077
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2074

I then removed the governor connectors, crankcase breather and fuel strap support bolt.... now ready for primer. I'll probably apply Hammerite Red Oxide to the crankcase and maybe spray the barrel/fins with high-temperature silver paint that I have (to be decided).

Also started on the nameplate.....

Before, showing patina and a crack along the middle:
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2078
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2080

If it wasn't for the crack on the nameplate, I'd have left it in the original patina.

After cleaning with 00000 wire wool, WD40, acetone, metal polish, and gentle beating with a punch to prepare the crack area:
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2083

I cut a piece of thin copper sheet to size and sanded it to provide a key for the epoxy that I'll use to join the two together - this should give the nameplate more strength (enabling me to blend in the crack and surface-finish the nameplate):
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2084

Epoxied together: Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2085

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Post by Dougal on Wed Mar 13 2019, 18:14

Nameplate and copper backing trimmed. The original nameplate would, I think, have been finished in black with the raised lettering left in brass. I used a black 'Sharpie' permanent marker to cover the nameplate then removed the black from the raised lettering with a pointed wire brush fitted to my Dremel tool (this took ages). I then lacquered the whole surface.
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2086
I think it looks okay, even though there was a slight reaction between lacquer and the ink.... looks like a bit of age/patina, rather than brand new.

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Post by Dougal on Wed Mar 13 2019, 18:18

With a bit of applied heat and WD40, I managed to knock out the pin from the hinged plate that attaches to the rear of the cowl.Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2087
I stripped the hinge plate, ready for paint:
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2088
I've given the cowl to my son, who'll hopefully media-blast it for me.

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Post by Dougal on Wed Mar 13 2019, 18:24

Governor crank and it's adjustment anchor bolt both cleaned/polished and given a new fibre washer: Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2090
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2089

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Post by Dougal on Wed Mar 13 2019, 18:26

Crankcase breather dismantled, cleaned and polished, with new retaining pin and fibre washer...
Villiers Mk10: Serial No. 522/182290 Img_2091

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